I say

them speak of arrangements coinciding very much with the plan published in the newspapers. I am convinced, however, that any plan contemplating the existence of slavery, one single day beyond the time which is absolutely necessary for making arrangements to secure the safety of the colonies,-will not be satisfactory to the people of England; nor do I believe that such a plan would be satisfactory to his Majesty's Ministers-so confirmed am I in the opinion that it is their determination to act upon right principles. One word as to delay. I certainly am not in the confidence of his Majesty's Ministers they are perfectly able to answer for themselves. I am not responsible for their conduct, either as regards delay or precipitancy; but I believe his Majesty's Ministers did consult the West India proprietors who have such a deep interest in this question. I think they did wisely in doing so but then I say the delay which has taken place is to be attributed to the difficulties which have been thrown in the way by that body,-difficulties of a nature that prevented measures having been brought before Parliament. the delay has been caused by the opposition of the planter. I am quite aware and ready to admit, that if emancipation can be carried into effect with the consent of the planter, it would be best for the interests of the slave; but I repeat it is the West India proprietors, and not his Majesty's Ministers, upon whom the responsibility rests of having occasioned this delay. However, I know nothing on the subject more than I gain from common rumour and common report. I have to apologize to your Lordships for troubling you with more words than I intended, and I now beg to present to you a petition from the inhabitants of Sheffield on this subject, signed by 11,100 persons. The prayer of this petition differs considerably from that which I had just now the honour of presenting; it prays for the total and immediate abolition of negro slavery throughout the colonies of the British empire, and that such regulations may be adopted as may be deemed proper to secure the independence and happiness of the negro.

VISCOUNT GODERICH.-After what has passed, your Lordships will perhaps excuse me if I say a few words upon this matter. With respect to the rumours of the intentions of Government as to the subject of colonial slavery, it is of course quite impossible that I can be answerable for them. Even the Noble Lord himself does not seem to place much reliance, by the manner in which he has stated them, upon those reports. The Noble Lord at first did not state what they were, and afterwards he referred to some extract from a newspaper. Every one must agree with me, that it was not necessary for the Government to undertake to explain rumours founded on such loose authority. The Noble Lord then said, with respect to the delay of which he complained, that it arose from that particular body of persons who are interested in the consideration of this great question. I am not conscious that there has been anything which can fairly and strictly be called delay. In a matter of this kind, it is the duty of the Government to give their utmost consideration to views and circumstances which necessarily belong to so

intricate a matter; and I think, therefore that no charge of delay can be substantiated against the Government; and it is consequently, not my business to state any communication which has taken place, or any result which may follow. I am perfectly aware of the importance of the subject. It would be strange if I were not. I am equally aware that the sense of Parliament should be taken upon it at the earliest period; but I, nevertheless, must take the liberty of saying, that if the wish for bringing forward this subject at an earlier period of this Session had been complied with, it would have been anything but advantageous or satisfactory, with a view to the settlement of the question.

EARL FITZWILLIAM.--I wish to trouble your Lordships with a few remarks, with regard to the delay which has been made the subject of observation. When my Noble Friend said that the question must be early settled, he did not mean that the people wished it to be precipitated; and for myself, I will at once say, that I think the question ought not to be brought forward till the undivided attention of both branches of the Legislature can be given to it. I am the person who has most recently taken his seat in your Lordships' House, and I, more recently than any of you, have been in contact with large bodies of the people; and I can tell your Lordships, most of whom from your habits are less in the habit of meeting large bodies of persons than I am, that you are not well aware of the strong feeling that exists among the people on this matter. There was a time when this question was confined to the large towns, and when secluded districts, and the distant agricultural quarters of the country knew nothing of it: but at this moment these places are as anxious on the subject as any others. If your Lordships do not decide this question satisfactorily to the people, you cannot be, what I contend you are to a certain extent, as much as the other branch of the Legislature, although not elected by the mass of the community-the representatives of the people.

The DUKE of BUCKINGHAM.-It certainly is not my intention, my Lords, to enter into any debate on this most important question. But I regret as much as the noble Lord, or, indeed, as any Noble Lord can do, that a measure for the settlement of this question has not ere now been brought forward. I say it was the duty of his Majesty's Ministers to have brought forward some such motion; and that it was not brought forward, I can tell my Noble Friend,—if he will allow me to call him so, has not been the fault of the West India proprietors. Their anxious desire was that such should be the case; their regret is, that they have been disappointed. I lament that his Majesty's Ministers have not made up their minds on this subject; they have held out promises to the ear, but they have disappointed, in effect, the hopes of the West India proprietors. I lament, also, that they have been in indirect communication with a part of that body to whom they have told their hopes, their wishes, and their disputes; all of which were kept a secret from the general body of the West India proprietors. This is the cause of the delay

that has intervened, and upon his Majesty's Ministers rests the blame of all the confusion in which West Indian affairs at present stand.

EARL GREY.-1 certainly do not rise to prolong this debate, and therefore I shall not be prevailed upon by any thing which has fallen from Noble Lords, to enter at this moment into the consideration of this important question; and however anxious I may be to have it settled, I am still as anxious that all the circumstances connected with it should be carefully examined, and the co-operation of all parties interested procured. However easy and popular it may be to attack Ministers for delay, I am content to submit to any imputation of that kind, provided that I avoid the greater danger of precipitation, of which the only result can be an unsatisfactory and unsafe settlement of the question. As to the communications that have taken place between Government and other parties on this subject, I do not think that the Noble Duke will impute it as a crime to us that we have endeavoured to ascertain the opinions of the West Indian body, and to obtain their co-operation in a work which is beset with difficulty and danger. The Noble Duke complains that the Government has communicated with a select portion of the West Indian proprietors. How would he have had the Government act? Would he have had the Ministers go to a general assembly,-to a meeting at Exeter-hall or elsewhere,-and there publicly declare their intentions? All that Ministers could do was to consult those privately whom they knew to be opposed to them, but in whom they had the greatest confidence, in order to ascertain in what way their objections could be met. Of course it would be inconsistent with my duty to throw out any hint respecting the nature of any plan which it may be in the contemplation of Ministers to propose. All I will say at present is, that the attention of Government generally, and of my Noble Friend near me, has been directed carefully to this great subject, with a view to bring it as speedily as possible to a satisfactory settlement. I cannot say what the rumours are to which my Noble Friend has alluded; for such rumours the Government are not responsible, and it cannot be expected that they should enter into any explanation with respect to them. To declare immediate emancipation would undoubtedly make short and easy work of the matter, but I confess that that is not the way in which I wish to deal with the question; and I am glad to hear from my Noble Friend's explanation that the word "immediate" is not to be taken as meaning immediate, but the earliest period at which emancipation can take place with safety to all the interests concerned. In that sentiment, my Lords, I most entirely concur. I am anxious for the abolition of

slavery, but confess that I cannot hope to arrive at immediate abolition. I wish the abolition to be effected at as early a period as possible, consistently with the safety of all parties concerned,-more particularly of those unfortunate persons whose relief it is our more immediate object to accomplish. Finally, my Lords, I must declare my fixed conviction, that there is no use in pressing forward with premature questions on this subject on the contrary, such a course can only tend to embarrass the matter still further.

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The DUKE of BUCKINGHAM.-The Noble Lord having stated that the delay was the fault of the West Indian proprietors, I think it right to assure him, that in that respect he has been misinformed, the West Indian interests being, in fact, most anxious for immediate inquiry.

The DUKE of RICHMOND.-I rise to contradict the statement made by the Noble Peer, that differences exist between his Majesty's Ministers on this subject. That I most distinctly and unequivocally deny-no such difference or dispute, whatever, has taken place.

LORD SUFFIELD.-My remark on the subject of the delay and its origin seems to me to have been entirely borne out by what has been elicited in the course of the discussion. Ministers have always expressed their wish to consult the West India proprietors; and I maintain that their opposition to a reasonable proposition from the Government has caused delay. At the same time I must guard myself from the supposition that I meant to convey a charge, that delay was the object of the West India interests: what I meant to say was, that delay was the result and inevitable consequence of their proceedings. Noble Lords opposite have been their allies in this respect. I am quite borne out in my statement of the result of the conduct of the West India proprietors by the Noble Viscount (Goderich). I am reminded by a Noble Friend of a circumstance which, if I wished to make a speech, ought not to be forgotten,namely, that the whole conduct of the West India proprietors, from the very commencement, has manifested a contumacious opposition to Government, that the effect of such conduct has been to produce delay,—and that the papers sent to Members of Parliament, making out a case of property in slaves, prove that the West Indian proprietors are still contumacious in resisting the proposed measure,that they produce delay, while the people of England are entirely out of patience on the subject ;-and that till this hour, the West Indians have endeavoured to procrastinate the extinction of slavery. The Noble Earl at the head of the Government says, that I evidently intended that the word "immediate" should not mean immediate in reference to this subject: I beg to explain my meaning. I opposed "immediate" to "prospective." I meant to say that measures should be immediately undertaken with a view to accomplish an object which is not to be considered as a prospective object. Measures short of this will not satisfy the people. For instance, a measure of this sort "that from and after the 1st of January, 1835, every person shall be free," would, in my opinion, be objectionable. That prospective emancipation would not be satisfactory. The country calls for immediate measures,-I mean, for measures to be immediately instituted for the accomplishment of the object at no remote period, and without unreasonable delay. Ministers should not suppose that I wish to make them responsible for rumours, or what appears in the newspapers; but when things so appear, an effect is produced on the public mind, and my object is to counteract that effect, in so far as it may be of an injurious tendency, and to afford Ministers an opportunity of remedying the mischief. You

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will find that a general protest will be entered by the people as soon as the rumours to which I have alluded shall be generally circulated. I repeat-I do not impute responsibility to Ministers on this head, but as an individual, I have a right to act on rumours, and it is my duty to combat those rumours at the earliest possible opportunity. I now present a petition to your Lordships for the immediate abolition of slavery, from Glasgow. It is signed by 31,172 individuals, and appears well worthy your Lordships' serious consideration.

LORD ELLENBOROUGH.-The Noble Baron is pleased to speak of Noble Lords on this side of the House, who take a part in West India affairs, as causing delay. This imputation I beg leave to deny. We look on the West India interest as only partly to be considered in the examination of this great question-the interests of the people of England being as deeply concerned in it-and I may add that I am quite sure his Majesty's Ministers take an incorrect view of the subject, if they do not think the interests of the slaves themselves still more deeply involved, and infinitely more concerned, in having the question disposed of without any rash or precipitate proceeding.

LORD SUFFIELD.-I assure the Noble Baron that I used the words, of which he complains, inadvertently; at the same time I may say, that it has so happened that every word that has been uttered here in favour of slavery, has come from the Noble Baron's side of the House.

MONDAY, APRIL 1.

LORD SUFFIELD.-I have several petitions to present to your Lordships on the subject of colonial slavery; and they contain, generally, the same prayer as those which I have presented on a former occasion-namely, for the total and immediate abolition of slavery. I am quite ready to concur in opinion with the Noble Earl, as regards immediate emancipation; because, if I did not misunderstand that Noble Earl, he said,‚—on a former night,—that he thought emancipation ought to take place, "as soon as it could with safety be accomplished." I dwell, my Lords, upon these words, because they have been misrepresented-whether wilfully or not I do not know. In common fairness, therefore, to the Noble Earl as well as to his Majesty's Government, I now repeat that his words were "that he thought emancipation ought to take place as soon as it could with safety be accomplished." As regards the phrase "immediate emancipation," I must be permitted, in justice to the Anti-Slavery Society, to trouble your Lordships with the explanation which that Society has given of their definition of it; and I am glad to sec so full an attendance of Noble Lords when I am to state the orthodox definition of the expression so employed by the society. Now the question put to them was-" What is meant by immediate emancipation?" This is their answer :—

"The right of property in man must be entirely, and for ever extinguished. No third party must be allowed to interfere between man and his Maker. Freedom of conscience, and personal liberty, without which freedom of conscience cannot exist,—