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pointed and directly in order upon the question pending before the Association, and therefore the point of order is not well taken.

MR. Maxx: I think if Judge Thornton will stop to reflect a minute he will admit that a motion to lay on the table is not debatable.

VICE PRESIDENT Wood: Judge Bradwell is recognized for a question upon this point of order.

JUDGE BRADWELL: I want to ask what the Legislature will think of the members of this Association if we bury this matter and refuse to appoint a respectable lawyer as a dele. gate upon this commission, to attempt

MR. Mann: Point of order.

VICE PRESIDENT Wood: Judge Bradwell will please suspend, there is already a question of order before the house, and another one is made.

JUDGE BRADWELL: I have the floor and I am speaking and I refuse to be interrupted. (Laughter and applause). MR. MANN: The gentlemen cannot help it.

: VICE PRESIDENT Wood: The gentleman will suspend for a moment, the Chair has the floor. (Laughter).

JUDGE BRADWELL: I believe I have the floor, and not the Chair.

VICE PRESIDENT Wood: The Chair has the floor at present. The point of order has been made and I think Judge Bradwell should suspend his remarks. The Chair is under the impression that Gen. Black was proceeding slightly out of order at the time the point was made by Mr. Mann (applause and laughter) and therefore to that extent the Chair will sustain the point of order and Gen. Black will proceed in order. (Applause).

GEX. BLACK: The further point of information which I desire, Mr. Chairman, to be enlightened upon, is as to whether or not all that has been presented in objection to the original resolution is not a vague fear, perhaps well


grounded, perhaps not, but is it not a vague fear that this comunission will prove an entering wedge for the dissolution here of the common law system

MR. MANN: I rise to a point of order.
VICE PRESIDENT Wood: The gentleman will state it.

MR. MANN: Gen. Black cannot rise here, nor can any other gentleman,-and certainly we will allow him to rise as readily as anybody else, -under the guise of seeking information, to make an argument, when a motion is before the Association to lay a pending resolution upon the table.

GEN. BLACK: I want to make a suggestion to my friend.

MR. MANN: It is all right to put it in the interrogative form, anybody with the skill in public speaking which Gen. Black possesses could debate any kind of a question. It is a mereI say it in the best feeling, too, and with all due respect-it is a mere parliamentary trick, but it is the kind of a trick that is not played in bodies governed by parliamentary law. It is very easy for Judge Thornton or Gen. Black or anybody else who wants to debate this question to vote down the motion to lay on the table.

MR. SHERMAN: We will do it.

GEN. BLACK: I want to make an appeal to my friend. I am the original mover of the resolution. I have not debated upon it until this moment; do not ordinary courtesy and the rules of parliamentary proceeding require me to do that in some shape or other?

MR. MANN: The strict rules of parliamentary law do not recognize any such thing as courtesy.

MR. ZEISLER: I rise to a question of privilege.
Gex, BLACK: I ask that I be allowed to proceed.
GEN. McNULTA: A word, Mr. Chairman,-

VICE PRESIDENT Wood: The opinion of the Chair is that a point of order having been made that Gen. Black is hardly in order. He is asking some very difficult questions for the Chair to answer, some legal opinions, and is not proposing to


The ques.

make any remuneration for them (laughter), and there might
be some question in the Association as to whether the in-
formation which the General asks from the Chair would be
correct when given. If it is the desire of the Association to
have further debate they can vote down this motion to lay
the whole subject on the table.

MR. RAYMOND: Regular order.

GEN. BLACK: Mr. Chairman, I ask for permission to
proceed under my application, for five minutes.
MR. RAYMOND: Regular order,

VICE PRESIDENT Wood: Gen. Black asks unanimous
consent of the Association to proceed for five minutes.

VICE PRESIDENT Wood: Does the Association consent?
MR. MANN: Objection.

VICE PRESIDENT Wood: Objection is made. tion is on the motion to lay on the table.

Mr. FULLERTON: I rise for information. It has been stated here in the course of this debate that the resolution to frame this commission was without any action on the part of this body. I find it stated on the bottom of

MR. RAYMOND: I rise to a point of order. Such an inquiry for information should be directed to the Chair with reference to the parliamentary proceedings that we are under, and not in reference to any outside question or discussion when the motion to lay on the table is pending.

VICE PRESIDENT Wood: The point of order I think well taken.

MR. FULLERTOX: My question will be directed to the Chair if I am allowed to finish it.

VICE PRESIDENT Woon: I think the point is well taken. As many as are in favor of the motion to lay on the table say aye. Those opposed, no. The noes appear to have it. The noes have it and the motion to lay on the table is lost. The



question now is upon the substitute offered by Mr. Stevens. Judge Bradwell is recognized.

JUDGE BRADWELL: Now what position do we occupy here, how will we stand with the members of the Legislature as a great legal body of the State of Illinois, if we refuse to appoint a member of a commission that we have really, ourselves asked before in substance, that the Legislature would grant? I can assure you, Mr. President, these gentlemen here that have such a holy horror of the code that they see it day and night, could do nothing more in favor of the code than to throw up this resolution and proposition and say to the Legislature, we will not even recognize you in appointing a member of the commission if you try to frame a bill that shall reform our practice and procedure. I, Mr. Chairman, am decidedly in favor of this Association appointing a member of this commission and appointing one of the best men they have got in it, and if when they go there and this Association is against a code then let this gentleman go there and exercise his influence against the code, but do not let us, when the Legislature of the State of Illinois asks it, say we do not think enough of you to even appoint a responsible member of our own body to appear upon the commission that you have provided for. The origin of this proposition was in the Chicago Bar Association, and the President of the Chicago Bar Association, Mr. McMurdy, is really the father of the bill, and took a great deal of pains to get it up and that Association thought it was a good plan to reform the practice in that way. Now I do say by all means let this Association appoint some one to carry out their views, whatever they may be and have respect for the Legislature in a solemn act like this, and say we are in favor of so and so, and appoint a member of that commission to carry out our views. And I there. fore think it would have a very injurious effect on the people of the State at large to throw this away and ignore it and say we will have nothing to do with it.


MR. PAGE: It seems to me that as long as it does not cost us anything to have a member upon that commission that it would be extremely unwise for this Bar Association to turn down the opportunity here presented. If the object of that commission is so inimical to the practice of this State as it is now, if it is organized for the purpose as some gentlemen here seem to fear, of foisting upon the State a code which they do not want, then it seems to me it would be the part of wisdom for this Bar Association to put a good, strongminded, hard-headed man on that commission and frustrate them all he can, if it is the object of this Association to have that done. (Applause). On the other hand, if the object of that commission is to further the objects for which this Bar Association meets every year, and for which we pay out our good money in expenses, then it seems to me it would be utter foolhardiness for us to decline to be represented upon that commission. We come here year after year and we say that we want to accomplish something for the benefit of the bar of the State of Illinois, something for the benefit of the practice and the laws of the State of Illinois, that is what they say our object is, and then when they get this Legislature in a mood, in a humor to open up the thing and give us the opportunity to come in and have our little say, we pick up our doll clothes and go away like a school girl and say, I won't play. (Applause). I am heartily in favor of and heartily in sympathy with putting a man there that shall represent this Bar Association, and if that commission is organized for good, to work with it, and if it is not organized for good, if it is not in harmony with the sentiments of this Bar Association, then let us have a man there that can hit it every time. That is what we ought to do.


MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that this Bar Association cannot, in justice to itself, refuse to appoint a member of that commission. If so be that every other per

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