The CHAIRMAN. Now, under Bureau of Supplies and Accounts, on page 112, the first is Provisions, Navy: For provisions and commuted rations for the seamen and marines, which commuted rations may be paid to caterers of messes, in case of death or desertion, upon orders of the commanding officers, commuted rations for midshipmen prior to completion of four years' course at Naval Academy. Why do you cut out all that language? Paymaster-General ROGERS. That is done by direction of the Secretary of the Navy. The last appropriation bill increased the pay of all officers of the Navy, and after the personnel act of 1899 there were certain officers who were then drawing what was called “old navy pay"—that is, pay previous to the passage of the personnel act of 1899, which included warrant officers, pay clerks, chaplains, and certain others and estimates have been annually submitted here for paying them commuted rations and they have been put in a separate item, with an explanation each year. Now, since their pay was increased it was the idea of the Secretary of the Navy that we should be put exactly on a par with the army, and that no officers afloat should be paid commuted rations at all, and therefore instead of that sum being $182,000 this year I have made it $113,223, that being commuted rations for 1,024 midshipmen in the Naval Academy, and in the Naval Academy only. Mr. BUTLER. Does that change the existing law? Paymaster-General ROGERS. No, sir. It only changes the verbiage of the appropriation bill. The CHAIRMAN. Do these midshipmen under the law get it? Paymaster-General ROGERS. They get it now. They also get it afloat until they become ensigns, and then it ceases. Then the cadets at the Military Academy receive commuted rations as do the midshipmen in the Naval Academy. As soon as they become commissioned officers they would lose it. The idea is to put the midshipmen of the navy exactly on a par with the cadets in the Military Academy. Mr. PADGETT. That does not apply to the two-year cruise? Paymaster-General ROGERS. No, sir. Their pay was raised under the last appropriation act to $1.400. They have gained that pay, and they would lose $109.50 a year by the commutation of the rations being cut off, if it is cut off. Mr. PADGETT. The effect of this is to cut it off? Paymaster-General ROGERS. To cut off the commutation of rations at sea. Mr. BUTLER. Of all officers at sea? Paymaster-General ROGERS. Of all officers at sea. Mr. BUTLER. Is there not some authority of law to pay them for these rations while at sea? Paymaster-General ROGERS. There is the same authority that always existed there. An officer can commute his ration when attached to a vessel for sea service; but since the passage of the personnel act, although that law is still on the statute books, only midshipmen after graduation, warrant officers, chaplains, and pay clerks have received their rations afloat. No other officers provided for under the act of 1899 have been paid a ration. The act of 1899 did not touch the pay of those mentioned. Therefore the pay and rations stand for them as they existed before 1899. They continue. Mr. PADGETT. Has the Comptroller passed on this as to those other people? Paymaster-General ROGERS. Yes; and they are entitled to it under the law as it exists to-day in the appropriation act. That is not in the Revised Statutes, and it has its existence only by virtue of the annual appropriation act. It is not incorporated in the Revised Statutes. The CHAIRMAN. And you say this will reduce the appropriation how much? Paymaster-General ROGERS. It will reduce the appropriation about $58,000. That is the fifth, sixth, and seventh lines on page 112. Those are all crossed off. Mr. PADGETT. Each one will lose $109, I understood you to say? Paymaster-General ROGERS. One hundred and nine dollars and fifty cents. The CHAIRMAN. "And for subsistence of female nurses and navy and marine corps general courts-martial prisoners undergoing imprisonment with sentences of dishonorable discharge from the service at the expiration of such confinement." Paymaster-General ROGERS. The provision for nurses is 100 nurses, Female Nurse Corps, to be subsisted at 35 cents a day for three hundred and thirty-five days, and 25 cents a day for thirty days, in accordance with the naval appropriation act approved May 13, 1908, which provided that the emoluments, allowances, and privileges of the female Nurse Corps of the navy should be the same as those provided for the Nurse Corps of the army in the army appropriation act approved May 11, 1908, namely, in accordance with the terms as just stated, 35 cents while on duty and 25 cents while on leave; the total amount being $25,875. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions on subsistence for female nurses? Paymaster-General ROGERS. This is exactly in accordance with the existing conditions in the army. Mr. PADGETT. Made necessary by the creation of that corps? Paymaster-General ROGERS. Yes, sir. If that is not permitted, it will simply put the navy nurses that much behind the army nurses, and will make them pay for their subsistence, while the army nurses are receiving it while on duty. Now, as to the next item, the general court-martial prisoners undergoing imprisonment, with sentences of dishonorable discharge from the service at the expiration of their confinements, the act has always provided, and you will find it under the head of "Pay of the navy,' that the number of enlisted men allowed to the Navy Department does not include general court-martial prisoners whose sentence carries with it a discharge at the expiration of their term of imprisonment, and they have been considered superfluous. This is the first time this item has ever appeared in the Paymaster-General's estimate, and the reason is this: When the estimates were made they have been made at so many cents a head for so many men in the navy, and the Bureau of Navigation has never enlisted the full number allowed until last December, and then, just before the sailing of the Atlantic fleet, every enlisted man allowed by law had been recruited. That immediately put an expense or burden upon "Provisions, navy," that had not been noticed before, and I then found, somewhat to my surprise, I must confess, that something like 700 general court-martial prisoners had been subsisted, all their rations being commuted at the rate of 30 cents per day; and the reason it was never felt before was that the total amount of money that Congress had allowed for subsistence of the navy had never, until that time, been used, and now I am compelled to ask for the subsistence of these men. Mr. BUTLER. It was not used because the enlisted men were not up to the full amount? Paymaster-General ROGERS. No, sir; and the sum of $120,000 was not noticed because there have been two or three hundred thousand dollars turned back to the Treasury many times from this appropriation of "Provisions, navy." Last year $255,000 was the balance on hand, and that was due to the fact that in reappropriating the balance, while I asked for the reappropriation of $721,000, something over a million was reappropriated, and that difference I have never used, but will turn it back into the Treasury. That statement about the court-martial prisoners there is also coupled with the authority, which I have asked for the Secretary of the Navy, to subsist these prisoners at whatever may be the actual cost of subsistence. The law now permits commutation of the ration, and when commuted into money it must be 30 cents. It can be no more and it can be no less. The law does not permit the Secretary of the Navy to pay 22 cents in money for the feeding of the prisoner, although we know it should not cost any more than that, and I ask for the amendment of the law to authorize this commutation at such sum as the Secretary of the Navy thinks it should be. Mr. BUTLER. Does this give him that authority? Paymaster-General ROGERS. Yes. My estimate here is at 30 cents. I do not expect the subsistence to cost more than from 21 to 23 cents; but as it is now, I have either to feed them the provisions in kind or give them the money. It has been the custom to pay the commutation at 30 cents. They are receiving 30 cents, and it is costing not more than 22 or 23 cents. That difference is accumulating in the fund from the saving of the rations, and I think the Secretary indorses this plan in his report. Mr. PADGETT. That fund accumulating would go to these discharged prisoners? Paymaster-General ROGERS. No, sir. It will go to the Treasury. Mr. PADGETT. I mean under the existing conditions? Paymaster-General ROGERS. We pay them 30 cents, and it does not cost 30 cents. They have certain savings from the rations, and that is used for giving the men periodicals and newspapers, and turkeys, and chickens, and candies, and odds and ends of that kind, to make life a little more cheerful for them. Mr. PADGETT. That is the fund that you say is accumulating too largely? Paymaster-General ROGERS. Yes, it is too large. The CHAIRMAN. Now, down on page 113 you have introduced the word "hereafter." Paymaster-General ROGERS. The only reason I did that was that that could henceforth be dropped from the bill. If you do not approve of that, it is not material. The CHAIRMAN. "And provided further, That the sum to be paid out of this appropriation, under the direction of the Secretary of the Navy, for chemists and for clerical inspection, and messenger service in the general storehouses and paymasters' offices of the navy-yards and naval stations for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and ten, shall not exceed four hundred and fifty-eight thousand three hundred and forty-six dollars." Paymaster-General ROGERS. Please let me finish with " Provisions" first. The President's decision not to have any more marines on the ships will reduce the total of that appropriation as estimated for Mr. PADGETT. Before you take that up may I interject a question about those undergoing imprisonment and dishonorable discharge? That fund that accumulates, you said, was used to make life more pleasant for them, and you said it was accumulating more largely than it should be. If it is not entirely used for the purpose of buying these little extras and things of that kind, is that fund held in the Treasury or does it ultimately go to these men in money? Paymaster-General ROGERS. It is not held in the Treasury. It is ultimately expended under the officer in command of the prison at his discretion, and the men receive no money whatever. They only receive the little extras I referred to, the purchase of which the ration law does not authorize. Mr. PADGETT. And if it is not paid out to one of those fellows he does not receive his 30 cents? Paymaster-General ROGERS. He gets no money at all, at any time. I mean to say this: The saving at 30 cents is very large. Where anything approaching a cost of 30 cents is used, the fare is entirely too good for the men in prison, and it simply makes them idle and slothful and good for nothing. The Judge-Advocate-General entirely agrees with me in this proposition. My idea is this: Suppose we feed them at 20 cents a day; suppose we give them 21 cents and let them make 1 cent per diem, instead of 8 or 9 cents. Mr. PADGETT. I did not know whether that money that was used for these luxuries was turned back into the Treasury or pro rated, after the end of a period, to the men or whether it was kept as a surplus fund in the disbursing offices. Paymaster-General ROGERS. That is the way it is kept. Paymaster-General ROGERS. Yes. Mr. ROBERTS. It is never turned back? The CHAIRMAN. In all, the total for $7,041,507.31? "Provisions, navy," is Paymaster-General ROGERS. Yes. The largest item of that is for the 44,500 enlisted men, which is the present strength of the navy. In the two previous years that has been estimated at 35 cents a ration. I told the committee I would do my best to reduce that, and I have done so this year, and my estimate is 34 cents. One cent may not seem much to you, but it amounts during the year to $162,425, which is the reduction in the cost of subsisting the men for this next year. Mr. PADGETT. What did you say was the present enlistment? Mr. PADGETT. That is the authorized number? Paymaster-General ROGERS. Yes. Mr. PADGETT. What is the actual enlistment? Paymaster-General ROGERS. I could not tell, but they were full last December. Those in prison are not counted. They are by law exempt from being included in the 44,500. Mr. PADGETT. Counting those, you are about 1,500 short? Mr. PADGETT. No; I understand that, counting them in, there were about 1,500 short; and not counting them, there were about 2,500 short. That is my understanding, and I thought you might know definitely. Paymaster-General ROGERS. No: I do not know. I go ahead under the disbursements under this head, and I try to keep them so that there will not be a deficiency. This saving of 1 cent is material. Whether I shall be able to reduce it to 33 cents I can not tell. The cutting off of that cent makes a saving, at the present number of enlisted men, of $162,425. The actual cost of the ration for the last fiscal year was 33.7 cents. That leaves me 3 mills, you see, which amounts to about $55,000. There are other savings which make a difference of from $16,000 to $20,000 more, so that we have, on the whole, about 1 per cent of the total appropriation as a leeway to cover unforeseen contingencies. Of course $308,760.70 can be deducted from that total of $7.041,507.31 on account of the marines, as only 500, on receiving ships, will be rationed by the navy. That leaves the total required as $6,732,746.51, instead of $7,041,507.31. This is the estimate for "Provisions, navy," for 1910, omitting for subsisting marines afloat on cruising ships. Statement showing estimate under " Provisions, navy, 1910." 44,500 enlisted men (present strength), at 34 cents per ration for 365 days.. 500marines on receiving ships, subsisted by the navy at 34 cents per ration for 365 days__. 1,034 midshipmen in the Naval Academy whose rations are 100 nurses (female nurse corps), subsisted at 75 cents a day for Labor in general storehouses, exclusive of clerks, messengers, For chemists, clerical, inspection, and messenger service in general storehouses and paymasters' offices of all navy yards and stations, including recommended additional clerks for 1910 (viz, $28,200) –. Total___. The last item under the above table is made up as follows: Present pay of clerks and messengers- Increase, 10 per cent-- Chemist at New York, from $2,500 to--. Chemist at Norfolk, from $2,000 to---. Chemist at Boston, from $1,577.52 to- $5, 522, 450.00 62,050.00 113, 223.00 25, 875,00 120, 450.00 430, 352.51 458, 346.00 6, 732, 746. 51 $382, 723. 64 38, 272.36 2,750.00 2,200.00 2, 100.00 2, 100.00 |