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I would like to have the name of the Bureau of Navigation changed to "Bureau of Personnel and the Fleet.” The name "Bureau of Navigation” is entirely a misnomer, as it has nothing to do with the navigation.

I would like to have the age of the candidates of the Naval Academy changed. As it is now, it is from 16 to 20 years. We graduate midshipmen at an average age of about 22 years. If we can cut off one year from the age of graduation, of course we would get them promoted to flag rank and command rank one year earlier, and if we can cut off two years more in the date of graduation, it will help us just so much. I think there is no reason why we should not have them enter from 15 to 18 years of age. That would give them all of 15, all of 16, and all of 17, and that would give them an age of graduating two years or two years and a half earlier than now.

Mr. PadGETT. You mean to exclude them after 18 years of age ?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes; nobody who has passed his eighteenth birthday should enter.

Mr. PADGETT. What about the possibility, with the present rigid examinations, of getting boys that would be qualified at that age?

Admiral PillsBURY. More boys fail, I understand, who are just under 20 than who are just over 16, or at least as many fail, because they have studied the things required at the entrance examination when they were younger and have forgotten them.

Mr. PadGett. That is what I wanted to get information on.

Admiral PILLSBURY. The entrance examination would have to be changed but very little.

. The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything further, Admiral ?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I have gone in my report into the subject of a proper training station on Chesapeake Bay, or a place to collect recruits.

Mr. ROBERTS. What objection have you to creating such a station at Port Royal ?

Admiral PILLSBURY. A large ship can not get into Port Royal.
Mr. Roberts. No, a ship can not get in there.

Admiral PillsBURY. I do not think, when we have numbers of men, that we ought to have to carry them across a bar to deliver them on board ship.

Mr. Roberts. How far would you have to take them by rail to deliver them at some point on Chesapeake Bay?

Admiral PILLSBURY. The Jamestown exposition grounds are within a mile. They are on Hampton Roads.

Mr. ROBERTS. Would it not be possible to carry them from Port Royal to some available point on Chesapeake Bay?

Admiral PillsBURY. I suppose it would be between three and four hundred miles; but there is only a semioccasional train that goes from Port Royal to the main line. There they have to transfer and go on another line that goes up the coast.

(At 12 o'clock m. the committee took a recess until 2 o'clock p. m.)

[No. 2.)



Monday, December 14, 1908.

The committee reconvened at 2 o'clock p. m., Hon. George E. Foss in the chair.




The CHAIRMAN. Now, let us turn to page 2 of the draft of the bill, and under the caption “Pay of the navy is one clerk to pay officer in charge of deserters' rolls. Will you please explain that, Admiral ?

Paymaster-General ROGERS. That was included in the recommendations last winter, and it was left out of last year's bill through misunderstanding as I comprehend it. I can but repeat what I said to you a year ago—that the accounts of deserters, immediately on desertion, are sent to the Bureau of Supplies and Accounts. They are held there for six months, and if at the end of that time the man has not been returned or arrested as a straggler his accounts are sent to the Treasury Department as a final deserter. This roll coniains from 4,000 to 5,000 accounts, and it is more than one man can handle. Of course, if the officer in charge of this roll, who is a paymaster in the navy, were on duty at a navy-yard he would be entitled to a clerk under the law. He is performing the same duty exactly, but with an office in the Bureau of Supplies and Accounts, and he is also very useful as being in charge of all traveling claims So that as this roll is a purely naval matter and has no connection with the civil administration of the Bureau of Supplies and Accounts I think it not at all fair that, in the difficulty of obtaining clerks, one of the civilian clerks should be virtually taken away and the bureau's energies diminished by that much to perform a duty

properly belongs to a paymaster's clerk. Congress has drawn a very sharp distinction between money appropriated for the Navy Department and that appropriated for the navy, and this is navy Work and not department work, and I think this request a perfectly fair one. He would be paid under “ Pay of the navy," and there will be no necessity of any increase in the appropriation. I beg to refer the committee to page 58 of my hearing last winter, which goes over this same ground.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, let us turn to page 100. I find there public works under Bureau of Supplies and Accounts

, naval training station, Great Lakes, building equipment to install cold-storage and refrig. erating plants, and all necessary equipment, $12,000; to fit general


storehouse with interior fittings, shelving, scales, furniture, and all office and other equipment, in all, $16,000; to be available on the approval of this act, $4,000. Will you please explain that?

Paymaster-General Rogers. First, I should like to state there has been in some way a misprint. The words “ four thousand dollars” should come in after the word “ equipment.” The reason that this is to be made available immediately is that the work of construction is going on at the naval training station, Great Lakes, the contracts have been let, and it will be necessary to make the arrangements for these fittings, which have been belated and were overlooked in the original estimates. Admiral Ross asked me to estimate for them, as they come under the cognizance of this bureau, and, with the Secretary's permission, I did so. My original estimate for the fitting of the storehouse was $10,000, which was reduced by the Secretary of the Navy to $4,000. I do not think it needs argument to prove to the committee that for a station 30 miles or so from the city of Chicago, and not nearer to any large city, that it will be absolutely necessary, as it will also be economy, to provide cold storage for the refrigerated meats and other foods which would be purchased and delivered at the station by the carload for the subsistence of a thousand or so young seamen who will be gathered there, and I need only say that this estimate for the cold-storage plant is based upon very complete inquiries, and it is an absolute necessity, and will be a very serious embarrassment to the station if it is not granted. The estimate for fitting up the storehouse is a very moderate estimate, and it is believed that, though it is less than half of the original estimate, it will be sufficient to last and it will not be necessary to ask for any further sum later on.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, I do not know but that we had better just go through the estimates and then take up these other matters. Is not that the best way!

Paymaster-General ROGERS. Yes, sir; I think so.

The CHAIRMAN. We will just go over the estimates first. Then the Admiral has got some matters that he wants to submit to us. The first is "Pay, miscellaneous.” That is on pages 10 and 11. "For actual traveling expenses of female nurses," that is a new proposition?

Paymaster-General ROGERS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. We went over that a little with the Chief of the Bureau of Navigation this morning.

Paymaster-General Rogers. That is estimated for at $4,000.

Mr. BUTLER. Can you tell, Admiral, when female nurses were first employed in the navy?

Paymaster-General ROGERS. This present fiscal year, pursuant to the last naval appropriation bill.

Mr. BUTLER. And this is to pay them their usual necessary traveling expenses?

Paymaster-General Rogers. Yes; their actual traveling expenses, not mileage, for the next fiscal year.

Mr. BUTLER. Male nurses are also employed?

Paymaster-General Rogers. Hospital stewards and apprentices are so employed, but not as the female nurses are; at least I so understand it, Mr. Butler.

Mr. BUTLER. All right.

The 'CHAIRMAN. These traveling expenses will be for their travel in changing from one hospital to another or from Washington to the hospital?

Paymaster-General ROGERS. Yes, sir.
Mr. PadGETT. Is the corps fully organized ?

Paymaster-General Rogers. It is organizing, sir, but not fully up to the number authorized by law. I think there are about 18 or 20. The Surgeon-General can give you the full details.

The CHAIRMAN. On page 12 is an item, "All advertising for the Navy Department and its bureaus (except advertising for recruits for the Bureau of Navigation)."

Paymaster-General Rogers. That is incorporated to bring advertising, which is now paid for under the appropriations of eight different bureaus, under the appropriation “Pay, miscellaneous.” The total amount paid for advertising during the last fiscal year was chargeable to these eight appropriations and was $3,908.80. "My idea is to give to the committee a list of what was paid, so that that may be debited to each one of these appropriations and $4,000 added to “ Pay, miscellaneous.” It is in the same line as when telegrams, postage, tolls, and things of that kind were last year transferred from ten or twelve appropriations into this appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. Why make any exception for the Bureau of Navigation ?

Paymaster-General Rogers. Because that is part of the expenses of recruiting, and I think it is much better that it should be so. All of this advertising is part of the purchases of stores, buildings, docks and things of that character, and ships. The Bureau of Navigation have their own advertisements for recruiting of men, and on considering the matter we concluded it would be much wiser to let it stay so.

Mr. PADGETT. What did you say the total of advertising was?

Paymaster-General Rogers. Three thousand nine hundred and eight dollars and eighty cents, chargeable to eight different appropriations.

Mr. PadGETT. That does not include the advertising for recruits?

Paymaster-General Rogers. No, sir, it does not; only advertising for supplies, etc.

The CHAIRMAN. I wish you would furnish a statement of the expenditures under these different heads in your hearing, and under all these appropriations.

Paymaster-General Rocers. Very well. Here it is.


Statement showing expenditures under appropriation Pay, miscellaneous," for

the fiscal year 1908.

Commissions and interest.
Transportation of funds_
Mileage for officers, etc.
Traveling expenses, civilian employees.-
Rent and furniture of buildings and offices -
Expenses of courts-martial, prisons and prisoners, boards, etc.
Expenses of purchasing pay offices.
Newspapers and advertising----
Postage, telegraphing, telephones, ferriage, tolls...

77013-09 3

$3, 794. 27

3, 710.79 19, 094. 26 317, 838. 7.1 16, 007. 63

3, 238. 65 35, 374. 09 97, 456. 24

1, 243. 71 29, 902. 45

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Statement showing increase in " Pay, miscellaneous," estimatcs for

the amount appropriated for 1909.

On account traveling expenses, female nurses.
On account of advertising-

(This estimate is based on the amount charged for advertising under various appropriations for 1908, as follows: Bureau Yards and Docks (appropriation, “Maintenance, Yards and Docks")

$544. 98 Bureau Equipment (appropriation “ Contingent, Equipment”).

540. 70 Bureau Navigation (appropriation Contingent, Navigation”)--

257. 86 Bureau Ordnance (appropriation,“ Contingent, Ordnance")- 454. 14 Bureau Construction and Repair (appropriation Construction and Repair "')-

738. 37 Bureau Steam Engineering (appropriation Steam Machinery")

530.93 Bureau Supplies and Accounts (appropriation “ Contingent, Supplies and Accounts")

555. 74 Bureau Medicine and Surgery (appropriation Contingent, Medicine and Surgery ”').

286. 08


3, 908. 80 (If the word “advertising" is stricken from the above appropriations, the estimates thereunder may be reduced in the sums stated.) On account of an increase of 8.52 per cent in pay of the

present clerical force at the various pay offices (present pay, $81,270)---

$6,930.00 New positions estimated for : Washington, D. C., (disbursing) clerk.

900.00 Norfolk, Va., clerk.

900.00 Charleston, S. C., messenger boy.

300.00 San Francisco, Cal., clerk.

960.00 Seattle, Wash., messenger boy-

480.00 On account of clerks in commandants' offices who are now

paid from various appropriations, plus 15 per cent in-
crea se:
Present pay

40, 432. 29 Increase, 15 per cent..

6, 067. 71 On account of clerks on boards, etc., who are now paid from various appropriations, plus 8.85 per cent increase: Present pay

29, 379. 36 Increase, 8.85 per cent..

2,600. 64

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