Admiral PILLSBURY. There were four different employees there whose services it was decided could not be paid for out of the fund for the support of the beneficiaries, and consequently they were summarily discharged about the middle of the month; this amount is to pay them the balance of their pay, the pay that was then due them. Mr. ROBERTS. It is to pay them money they had earned? Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROBERTS. Before we get away from this, let me ask you if you know what the income of that naval fund is?

Admiral PILLSBURY. It is $14,000,000 at 3 per cent interest.

Mr. ROBERTS. And they do not begin to use the income, do they? Admiral PILLSBURY. I do not know.

Mr. ROBERTS. They do not begin to use the income, do they? The principal is growing all the time from money accumulated from the income, is it not?

Mr. PADGETT. It goes to the navy pension fund, does it not?

Mr. ROBERTS. How large is that naval pension fund? Is it not a pretty large fund?

Mr. CALLAHAN. The interest on this fund goes toward paying pensions after the expenses of the naval home are taken out.

Mr. ROBERTS. Then there is no fund for those pensions? They come out of the Treasury?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir; they are partially paid from the income of this $14,000,000.

Mr. ROBERTS. Does that exhaust all the income after paying the expenses of the home?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I do not know whether it does or not.

Mr. ROBERTS. I would like to get some information about that fund.

Admiral PILLSBURY. I believe that until the end of the civil war it was in 6 or 7 per cent gold bonds. It was the first fund invested in government bonds that were reduced to low interest.

Mr. ROBERTS. There is a proposition on foot to divert some of the proceeds of that fund for the naval home to other purposes, and I wanted to find out how much the fund was and how much it was used for, to see whether or not you could safely divert any of the sources of revenue.

Admiral PILLSBURY. I will give you a statement on that.

STATEMENT REGARDING NAVAL HOME.

In the naval appropriation act of 1870 it was provided that the present and all future appropriations for the support of the Naval Home should be charged to and paid from the income of the naval pension fund which accrues from the total government receipts from sales of prizes and from suits for depredation of timber belonging to the United States. This fund amounts to $14,000,000, and the yearly interest thereon is at the rate of 3 per cent (sec. 4754, Rev. Stat.). The amount remaining from the income on the naval pension fund, after deducting therefrom the appropriation which Congress has authorized for the maintenance of the Naval Home and adding credits accruing from balances remaining unexpended from Naval Home appropriations and the surrender of pensions of inmates of the Home, is applied to the payment of naval pensions, so far as it may be sufficient.

The amount expended for navy pensions during the fiscal year 1908 was $4,934,350.50. The income from the navy pension fund for the year 1908, available for payment of pensions, was $360,409.92, less than 8 per cent of the amount required for the payment of navy pensions. The amount derived from the interest on the navy pension fund has not been sufficient to pay the navy pensions since 1870. During the last five

years the interest on the navy pension fund and the amounts paid for navy pensions have been as follows:

Interest on navy pension fund and amounts paid for navy pensions.

The CHAIRMAN. We turn now to page 83, "Public works under Bureau of Navigation. Naval Training Station, California, buildings." The first is "Oiling parade grounds and roads adjacent, two thousand and fifty dollars; shacks for the detention camp, four thousand three hundred and seventy dollars; salt-water flushing system, two thousand eight hundred and twenty-five dollars and fifty-two cents; dredging the north side of island, seven thousand two hundred dollars; in all, eighteen thousand four hundred and forty-five dollars and fifty-two cents."

Will you please examine those items?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir. The oiling of the roads, as you know, is something that is very desirable in a dusty place. That in the summer time is one of the most dusty places in the country; it is very windy, the wind carries germs, and they want to have a small amount for the purpose of oiling this parade ground and these roads. That would cost about $2,000.

As to the detention camp, it is the practice on this side to take recruits when they first enter and keep them in a detention camp for the period of incubation of mumps, measles, and kindred diseases, so that when they go into the main barracks they will be free from anything that may have been transmitted from their homes. At Newport they have a considerable plant-that is, they have four or five buildings-for that purpose.

Mr. ROBERTS. Brick buildings, substantial buildings?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir. At Norfolk we have what we call tent houses; that is, merely frames of wood with tin roofs and canvas sides. The men are living in them, and it is something similar to these tent houses that they want at Yerba Buena.

The CHAIRMAN. How about the salt-water flushing system?

Admiral PILLSBURY. The department directed that the use of fresh water should be used only for drinking and cooking, as it is quite expensive out there, and ordered that a salt-water flushing system should be inaugurated, which was perfectly feasible and practicable. This money is to pay for that.

Mr. ROBERTS. Will that complete it, Admiral?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I think so.

The CHAIRMAN. What about the dredging on north side of island? Admiral PILLSBURY. That is desirable. It is necessary because they want to be able to get an oil barge up to the wharf to supply oil to the power station; that is, to dredge à channel 40 feet wide so that the barge can get in to the wharf.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is "Naval Training Station, Rhode Island, buildings." There is no increase for improving and grading grounds and roads, but there is an increase for "dredging channel and basin" of $1,500?

Admiral PILLSBURY. That is to continue the dredging that has been going on, for which an amount of money had been appropriated which was not sufficient to complete the work.

Mr. OLCOTT. This is at Newport, is it not?
Admiral PILLSBURY. Newport; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is "Increase of heating and lighting plant, to complete, sixteen thousand dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. That is for additional boiler capacity and a new stack. The old iron stack is insufficient now.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is "walks at detention barracks, to complete, six thousand three hundred and thirty dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. The barracks are situated in a muddy place, and there are no walks surrounding the buildings, as there should be. The next item is for the completion of water-closets for prisoners. The last time I visited Newport I found that the prisoners, of whom there were but few, it is true, were obliged to go to the main waterclosets and to the lavatories, and I concluded it was very desirable that they should have a little one of their own right by their place of confinement; outside of the main closets and lavatories there is not a single place that a workman can go.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is "for bakery, and cold storage plant, to complete.

Admiral PILLSBURY. That is to complete work that is already begun.

The CHAIRMAN. That will finish it?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is "for improvement and completion of the naval training station, Narragansett Bay, in accordance with the plan approved by the Secretary of the Navy, as follows: Equipment storehouse, twelve thousand dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. I have cut that out of my estimate.

The CHAIRMAN. You have cut that out?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes; I think there are other things more important, and I should prefer that that should be one of the items. to be cut out.

The CHAIRMAN. Where is that located, at Narragansett Bay? Admiral PILLSBURY. It is what is called Coaster's Harbor Island. Mr. PADGETT. How far from Narragansett Pier is it?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Five or 6 miles, as the crow flies, I should say. It takes a long time to go by land, as you have to go by the Jamestown ferry.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is "remodeling present general storehouse for carpenter, machine, paint, and plumber's shops, one thousand nine hundred and fifty dollars.

Admiral PILLSBURY. I have cut that out.

Mr. ROBERTS. Have you not changed the name of this? We used to know it as the training station, Newport.

Admiral PILLSBURY. It is the training station at Newport.
Mr. ROBERTS. They call it here, Narragansett Bay.

Admiral PILLSBURY. It is the naval station at Narragansett Bay, composed of the torpedo station right in the harbor, the war college and training station and naval hospital on Coaster's Harbor Island, and then up the bay at Bradford there is a coal depot.

Mr. ROBERTS. Yes; they have consolidated it into a station?

The CHAIRMAN. "Cottage for commandant, including clearing and preparation of site, fifteen thousand dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. I think that is quite necessary. The original estimate was cut down by the Secretary, and I thought $15,000 was sufficient for it.

The CHAIRMAN. "Repairs to Barracks 'C,' additional roads, walks, and pavements in vicinity of Barracks 'C,' ten thousand dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. The barracks ought to be repaired, because there has been nothing done upon them. There should be spent on them $3,500. For additional roads, walks, and pavements in the vicinity of these barracks the sum estimated is $10,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Additional walks, $10,000?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir; the $3,500 for repairs to barracks "C" is for little repairs that need to be made yearly. There has been no appropriation for repairing these barracks, such as fixing up the doors, windows, sills, and things of that kind.

Mr. HOBSON. Before you leave this point, do I understand you to recommend that the remodeling of houses down on the point there be postponed?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir; I do. I do that because I think that while it is very important, there are other things that are more necessary to be done than that, and the request for the increase here is considerable. If there is anything to be cut down, I would like to indicate the line in which I would perfer to have it cut.

Mr. HOBSON. Would you prefer to have it all cut out?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I should prefer, of course, to have it all in. Mr. HOBSON. No; but on that particular item. I remember one of the places where the roof is not water-tight at all.

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes; I know it.

Mr. PADGETT. How about this equipment storehouse on page 85; was that cut out or left in?

Admiral PILLSBURY. That was cut out.

The CHAIRMAN. The $10,000 for additional roads and walks you want left in?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. "Hauling out ways, five thousand dollars." you want that left in?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir; that should go out.

Do

The CHAIRMAN. "Improvements in rifle galleries and ranges, one thousand eight hundred dollars." How about that?

Admiral PILLSBURY. That had better be in.

The CHAIRMAN. "Bins for salable condemned material, nine hundred and eighty-five dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. I think that is unnecessary at the present time. The CHAIRMAN. "Paving and grading peninsula, eleven thousand dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. That is something that has been needed for a long time.

The CHAIRMAN. Should that stay in?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I should prefer that a part of that go in.
The CHAIRMAN. Five thousand dollars?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. "Enlarging boathouse, eight thousand dollars." Admiral PILLSBURY. I thought that had better go in.

The CHAIRMAN. "Coal-storage bins with equipment, seven thousand six hundred and forty dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. The Secretary cut out the pier and did not cut out this. This should be cut out, because it is useless without the pier.

The CHAIRMAN. "Moving and extending old sea wall west of barracks B, four thousand seven hundred and ninety dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. This is something that ought to be done in connection with this coal pier. It would save a great deal of money if we did it all.

The CHAIRMAN. Then that ought to go out?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes; inasmuch as we have not the pier.

The CHAIRMAN. "Improvements to assembly, lecture, and reading room, thirteen thousand six hundred dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, I should like to have that, too.

The CHAIRMAN. "Coal-handling apparatus, ten thousand dollars." Admiral PILLSBURY. No; that should be cut out, as it is part of the same scheme as the coal pier.

The CHAIRMAN. "Stone-crushing plant, two thousand four hundred and eighty dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. That would save money, but it is not absolutely necessary.

The CHAIRMAN. "Fire-alarm system, three thousand five hundred dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. That is desirable.

The CHAIRMAN. "Coal bin and scales for equipment coal, three thousand dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. You should take that out.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. The next is "Naval Training Station, Great Lakes." That Admiral Ross will explain, you say.

At St. Helena, Va., we have "For mess hall for recruits at St. Helena, Norfolk Navy-Yard, including kitchen, grading, walks, and other necessary improvements connected therewith, sixty thousand dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. At times there are recruits at the station in such numbers that in the little place they have to mess it is necessary to serve each meal three times every day; three breakfasts, three dinners, and three suppers.

Mr. THOMAS. This is the station at Jamestown, is it not?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir; that is at Norfolk; and this money will build a mess hall that will provide for a thousand men, easily. Mr. HOBSON. Is it your idea to develop that station?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No; it is to put it in decent condition until we do have a station. We have 190 tent houses there, and the men are living in them now, but they have no suitable place to mess.

Mr. THOMAS. This is not a part of a permanent project?
Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir; only a temporary expedient.

I would like to speak of the necessity of vice-admirals. I have explained it, however, in my report, which I would like to have you gentlemen read.