Mr. LOUD. The length of the tube is something like 6 feet? Commander GRIFFIN. A little more than 6 feet-6 feet 6 inches. Mr. LOUD. Would you consider a deflection of 2 or 3 inches? Commander GRIFFIN. We would not consider it at all; we would not allow it.

Mr. LOUD. Your limit of deflection is about what?

Commander GRIFFIN. In new boilers, one-quarter of an inch. We do not want to go beyond that, but the extent to which it actually does go depends a good deal on the people on the ship. If we know at the department that it is anything over a quarter of an inch, we make them cut out the tubes and replace them.

Mr. LOUD. What is the largest amount of deflection that has come to your notice?

Commander GRIFFIN. I have examined a great many boilers after trials, and I do not think I have ever seen over three-eighths of an inch, as measured with a wooden straightedge.

The CHAIRMAN. In buying boilers, do you give an opportunity to all classes to bid?

Commander GRIFFIN. No, sir; we do not.

The CHAIRMAN. Has the department any special preference? Commander GRIFFIN. We have a decided preference for the Babcock & Wilcox boilers for battle ships.

The CHAIRMAN. Why?

Commander GRIFFIN. Because it is a straight-tube boiler which can be cleaned, and that any man aboard ship can take care of. An ordinary boilermaker or good fireman can take care of it. For the cruisers and torpedo boats we allow more latitude. We have a number of types of boilers in use on those ships, including the Trent, Almy, Fore River, Hohenstein, Mosher (two types), Normand, Seabury, Thornycroft, and Yarrow. We also have the Niclausse in three battle ships, but do not contemplate further use of that type. Mr. HOBSON. Have you tried the Belleville?

Commander GRIFFIN. No, sir.

Mr. LOUD. The Babcock & Wilcox boiler is preferred for the battle ships?

Commander GRIFFIN. Yes, sir. We should prefer to have competition if we could get another boiler as good as the Babcock & Wilcox, because we realize that by using that boiler exclusively in battle ships we are liable to criticism. As an evidence of how satisfactory it is in service, I will state that about two weeks ago the report of work required at Cavite on the battle-ship fleet was received and there was not one dollar's worth of repair work asked of the navy-yard on Babcock & Wilcox boilers. On the ships that had Scotch boilers the repairs were considerable, but, of course, the boilers were older than in ships with Babcock & Wilcox.

Mr. LOUD. Was there anything more than the tightening up of the tubes?

Commander GRIFFIN. Tubes, seams, etc. There was no accident or the coming down of sheets, or anything like that.

The Babcock & Wilcox is a boiler that can be cleaned while it is in service. You can not do that effectively with any other of the water-tube boilers. On the destroyers and with all the other watertube boilers we use steam or compressed-air lances to get among the tubes and clean them. The Babcock & Wilcox boilers have a

separate cleaning chamber where the soot is deposited, and there are openings in the side of the boiler for cleaning that out. That involves a waste of space in the ship; that is, we have to allow for that cleaning space, but we of course reduce that one-half by stacking the boilers side by side so that one space will do for two boilers. With the other boilers we have considerable difficulty in cleaning. In fact we are now having difficulty with one ship that has the bent-tube type of boiler, such as could never occur with the Babcock & Wilcox boilers. For these reasons we think that the maintenance of the machinery of the battle ships in first-class condition justifies our sticking to a boiler which we know is a rugged one and which anybody aboard ship can take care of. In other words, we do not think we should take chances with the boilers of a battle ship. We think they are of as much importance as the guns.

Mr. LOUD. That would seem to be very consistent and reasonable. The reason that I specially asked the question was that I was conversing only a few days ago with an expert on boilers and I asked him the question why it was that the boilers in the navy were so much shorter lived than those in the high-class merchant service, and among other things he suggested that the removal of tubes was unnecessarily frequent, in the navy because they were so particular to keep them always true.

Commander GRIFFIN. The deflection of the tubes does not amount to so much with us. We found in one ship which was tried about six months ago that there was considerable trouble with the tubes, and it led to the belief that at some time during the contractor's trial there had been low water in the boiler. Those tubes were in bad condition and had to be cut out and renewed, but the renewal of tubes in our boilers is generally not because of deflection, but of pitting; small holes are eaten right through the tubes. In some ships the tubes have gone very quickly, and it seemed almost impossible to arrive at the real cause. In others they have lasted for years, even with a very common grade of tubes.

Mr. HOBSON. What is the pressure?

Commander GRIFFIN. Two hundred and ninety-five pounds in the latest design.

Mr. HOBSON. How much do you reduce that?

Commander GRIFFIN. We count on a drop of 30 pounds in the steam pipe, making a pressure of 265 pounds at the engine. Experience has shown that we do get a drop of about 30 pounds in large ships.

Mr LOUD. Is that higher than the pressure ordinarily used in the high-class passenger service?

Commander GRIFFIN. Yes, sir. Some of the steamers that have small boilers go to 210 pounds and the German express steamers to 213 pounds. Another thing that has a material influence on the life of a boiler is the rate at which it is driven.

Mr. LOUD. The trans-Atlantic liners are going back and forth and are very little at the ports.

Commander GRIFFIN. But the rate of combustion in those boilers is low compared to what we have on trials in the navy, and that is where the injury comes, when you run up to very high rates of combustion at forced draft.

Mr. HOBSON. How much air pressure do you use in forced draft?

Commander GRIFFIN. We limit it to 2 inches. The limit was 1 inch when we first introduced the straight tube boiler. Then we found that it did not do any harm to use 2 inches, and we now allow that.

Mr. HOBSON. How much additional power does that give you? Commander GRIFFIN. About 20 per cent.

Mr. LOUD. If it were possible to obtain the same grade of coal as is used by the Japanese navy, do you think it would be wise for the Government to make experiments of its use in our fleet?

Commander GRIFFIN. I think it would be desirable to make the experiments.

Mr. LOUD. Have you ever had any experience or chance to compare Japanese coal, such as is used in their navy, with the kind of coal which we use, the American coal?

Commander GRIFFIN. No, sir; I have not. I have not seen any report on Japanese coal for a number of years, but those that came to my notice some time ago showed it to be an inferior coal to ours.

Mr. LOUD. Is it possible that it is so inferior as to make it good policy for us to use in the Orient American coal with the large freightage attached to it? Is not that a subject worthy of consideration? Commander GRIFFIN. I think it is, but I am not prepared to answer that question.

Mr. LOUDENSLAGER. Is there any enlightenment which you can give us on that point, when you can not use Japanese coal at all because you can not buy it?

Commander GRIFFIN. The Bureau of Equipment would be the best one to give an answer to that question.

Mr. LOUDENSLAGER. They have made that answer.

Mr. LOUD. I came across the Pacific on the Korea when she broke the record. She used Japanese coal and they seemed to find no trouble in using it and getting good results from Japanese coal, and it is a query in the minds of business men as to whether there is sufficient difference between the American and Japanese coal to warrant the enormous amount of freightage out there.

Commander GRIFFIN. I am not prepared to answer that question. Mr. LOUD. Our gunboats in the Philippines are all using coal costing a very large price per ton, owing to the freightage out there, whereas the Japanese gunboats do good service, as they have shown. Why is it that our gunboats can not use the same kind of cheaper coal rather than constantly use the more costly coal taken out from America with the large freightage?

Commander GRIFFIN. I suppose there is no question that it can be used, but I can not give a definite answer as to either the cost or value without looking up the record.

Mr. LOUD. There is practically $500,000 involved in that one item, and it would be worthy of consideration by those who have it in charge to investigate whether it is good policy to use American coal and whether that $500,000 is not in part a needless expenditure.

Mr. PADGETT. In the last appropriation bill we authorized a large amount of money for repairs on certain named ships, and among them $600,000 for the Alabama. Was that amount expended on the Alabama?

Commander GRIFFIN. I do not think a dollar has been expended

yet.

Mr. PADGETT. Why?

Commander GRIFFIN. She has just returned from her trip around the world, and a general survey has just been held on the ship. In fact, the report has not yet been made to the department. The authorization for work on her involves an estimated expenditure of $175,000 under the Bureau of Steam Engineering, the remainder being under the other bureaus. No action has been taken on the survey.

Mr. PADGETT. Is that the first or second survey?

Commander GRIFFIN. It is the first general survey; that is, it takes in the whole ship. On all ships that go to navy-yards for extensive repairs, such as cost $10,000 or more, the department orders a survey to see whether such extensive repairs are necessary. The members of such a Board of Survey are all officers or master workmen attached to the navy-yard.

Mr. LOUD. Where are the repairs to be made?

Commander GRIFFIN. At the New York yard. In the case of a ship returning for a general overhauling, what is called a general survey is held. That is, under the direction of the Board of Inspection and Survey. This board goes from Washington and presumably has no interest in making a lot of work for a navy-yard. They go through and recommend such repairs as they think necessary.

Mr. PADGETT. Was a survey made before this estimate for $600,000 was submitted and the appropriation procured at the last session of Congress?

Commander GRIFFIN. No, sir; not to my knowledge. I should say that no general survey had been held, but the estimates were made up from expenditures for work of a similar character on other ships. For instance, we had a general survey on the Oregon and on the Massachusetts and Indiana, all battle ships, and I suppose the estimates

Mr. PADGETT (interrupting). Do I understand that you make a survey on the Oregon, and you ask then $600,000 for the Alabama?

Commander GRIFFIN. Not the same as the estimate for the Oregon necessarily, because the conditions differ materially in different ships, but they would be based largely on the character of work found necessary in another ship of that type.

Mr. PADGETT. Do I understand that the department or the bureaus will ask Congress and this committee for an appropriation of $600,000 for a specific ship without making an investigation or survey of that ship to know what is best and what is needed?

Commander GRIFFIN. We know from the reports that come from the ship. For instance, in the Bureau of Steam Engineering we have quarterly reports that give the condition of the machinery and we keep a record showing the general wear and tear, so that we can tell at any time just what the condition of the machinery is.

Mr. PADGETT. Just at that point: Were not bids advertised for for the new boilers for the Alabama?

Commander GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

M PADGETT. How many bids were received?

Commander GRIFFIN. Two.

Mr. PADGETT. What was the action taken on those bids?

Commander GRIFFIN. There was no action taken by the depart

ment.

Mr. PADGETT. As a matter of fact, have not both of those bids been rejected and the department determined not to put in new boilers for the present, because they said that the present boilers are good and sufficient.

Commander GRIFFIN. So far as the Bureau of Steam Engineering has any knowledge of the matter, the department has not so decided, but I think, from conversation with members of the Board of Inspection and Survey, that that will be the decision of the department; at any rate, it will be the recommendation of the Board of Inspection and Survey.

Mr. PADGETT. That the boilers are not needed, and therefore they will not accept either of the bids?

Commander GRIFFIN. I understand the recommendation of the board will be that the boilers can be economically repaired and last for three or four years, but that report has not been sent to the bureau or, as far as I know, to the department.

Mr. PADGETT. Is that true with reference to any other of these specific ships that we made appropriations for last year?

Commander GRIFFIN. No, sir. Right on that subject we had a report about two weeks ago from Admiral Sperry in relation to the Illinois, Kearsarge, Kentucky, and Wisconsin, stating that their boiler power was not sufficient, or the boilers were not in condition to justify a speed greater than 12 knots, and that they hampered the fleet and ought to have new boilers. That was his report. Following that, the Secretary of the Navy ordered the Bureau of Steam Engineering to include in its estimates for the next fiscal year an estimate for reboilering the Wisconsin, the others being covered in the appropriation for this year.

Mr. PADGETT. So that many of the ships for which large amounts were appropriated at the last session of Congress went out on this trip around the world prior to the making of repairs?

Commander GRIFFIN. Yes, without making the extensive repairs contemplated, but in good condition. They were started out about the time that the estimates were made.

Mr. PADGETT. So that at the time Congress was making the appropriation of these large amounts for them they did not have boilers in them sufficient to justify the action of the department in sending them on a trip around the whole world?

Commander GRIFFIN. Oh, yes. If you wait until the boilers play out before you authorize new ones, you will tie up a battle ship for a long time. A battle ship may be needed very quickly. We try to have the boilers ready when the ship needs them.

Mr. PADGETT. Have these boilers been made?

Commander GRIFFIN. For the Alabama?

Mr. PADGETT. For any of them?

Commander GRIFFIN. No, sir; contracts have not been let yet. I explained to the chairman before you came in that the condition of the appropriation for this year, which was cut $565,000 below the estimates, would not justify it.

Mr. PADGETT. We appropriated the exact amount that was asked for by the department?

Commander GRIFFIN. But you did not appropriate the necessary money. That is, the work was to be done out of the current appropriation for work and repairs to ships. There was no additional