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If, on the first of the next fiscal year, the quota of enlisted men is filled, it will still be necessary to calculate on 20,000 enlistments for the following fiscal year, which number of men will be required to make up for the constant losses due to desertions and routine discharges.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is on page 16, "Recruiting: Expenses of recruiting for the naval service." The recruiting is the same as last year?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. On the next item "Contingent," you have asked for an increase from $12,462 to $20,000?

Admiral PILLSBURY. That appropriation has been gradually cut down. It was $25,000 in 1906 and it has since been reduced by the committee to its present figure. The increase we now should have, I believe. It is chiefly designed for the purchase of publications and appliances for the instruction of enlisted men. We have a number of classes to instruct our men in the peculiar work of the navy. An electrician comes in, and maybe he is a pretty good electrician for shore work, but is not for navy work, and we have to give him a little schooling; the same is true of the seaman gunner's class at the navyyard, and there is also a class for musicians. It is extremely hard to get good musicians at all. We have machinists and artificers coming in, and cooks, and since we have taken the aliens out of the ships we have to instruct even mess attendants in waiting on the table and making up beds. There are quite a number of publications that we get out for these different classes. We have pamphlets for electricians, artificers, machinists, stewards, and cooks, handy book for apprentice seamen, etc. So that we really want money for these publications. There should be one for each branch. We have nine or ten different classes, some of them numbering as high as a hundred and fifty. We pick up tools from the scrap piles of the navy-yards that have been discarded, and we fit them up so as to instruct with them. We pick up old dynamos that have been condemned and the electricians put them together and study them up; and we take old switchboards and things of that kind and let them experiment with them. But we have no money that we can expend for any appliances. Even for the cooking school we have been taking old coppers to use in instructing these people. The Bureau of Equipment the other day kindly loaned us some appliances that were in better condition. But we have no money to go on with this work, and I believe it to be a very great necessity.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is gunnery exercises, $170,000.
There is an increase of $40,000 in that item.

Admiral PILLSBURY. I think that was a mistake, and I should prefer that it should remain at $130,000, as it was.

The CHAIRMAN. "Outfits on first enlistment, one million two hundred and ninety-one thousand dollars." That is an increase of $391,000.

Admiral PILLSBURY. An additional appropriation of $300,000 under this appropriation was carried by the deficiency act approved February 15, 1908, making the total appropriation for the year $1,200,000. The first enlistments for the year 1908 numbered 17,852. the average actual strength of the navy for the year being 36,480. Proportionately, the first enlistments for the fiscal year of 1910 will

be 21,527, which at the same price of $60 per outfit would bring it up to this amount.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you an unexpended balance under this appropriation?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I think there will be a little, due chiefly to the fact that when a boy goes to one of the training stations, if it is summer time, he is not fitted out with all his winter clothing. If he is found not to be desirable or for any reason leaves the service, we save the difference between his summer outfit and his winter outfit. I do not know how much it will be at the end of a year. Mr. ROBERTS. If that same boy stays in into the cold weather, then he gets the balance of his outfit, up to $60?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes; when he is transferred to a cruising ship then he gets all of it that is necessary for him; and we find usually that it is all necessary.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is on page 18, "Maintenance of naval auxiliaries, six hundred and sixty-one thousand dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. I have the list of them all, with the cost per month of each. The only one that is omitted from it is the Solace. She is coming to this coast to be used as a hospital ship.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you more colliers than you had?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I have put in this list the three that are actually under construction, the Vulcan, the Hector, and the Mars. The two new navy-built colliers will have navy crews. They are high speed, and will have navy crews.

The CHAIRMAN. How much does that add to it?

Admiral PILLSBURY. The three new ones that are coming in?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Admiral PILLSBURY. There will be $3,680 for each of the three per month.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any new vessels?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Those are the three.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any of any kind over and above what you had last year, besides those three?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Would that make up the difference between the appropriation of last year and that of this year?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

Mr. HOBSON. Does this item include the Relief?

Admiral PILLSBURY. This includes the Relief: $4,074 per month. Mr. ROBERTS. Will these three new colliers have navy crews?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir; not these three that are enumerated here; but the two, the Prometheus and the Vestal, will have navy crews when they are ready for commission.

Mr. ROBERTS. Why should those not have navy crews as well as the other two?

Admiral PILLSBURY. We have not the officers and men.

Mr. ROBERTS. It is simply because of lack of officers and men? Admiral PILLSBURY. As soon as we have the officers and men we would be glad to have every one of the colliers officered and manned by the navy.

Mr. ROBERTS. Can you tell me how many men are designed to go on these three new colliers, how large the crews will be?

Admiral PILLSBURY. On those three?

Mr. ROBERTS. Yes.

Admiral PILLSBURY. I do not remember the exact complement, but it is somewhere about 76 officers and men.

Mr. ROBERTS. What would the navy crew be for the same ship? Admiral PILLSBURY. A navy crew for the same ship would probably be about 10 officers and 150 men.

Mr. LOUD. These three boats are not built yet; they are under

contract?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is on page 18, "Naval Training Station, California." On page 19 there is a new item, "Maintenance of dispensary building. You have such a building there?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir. The appropriation for the maintenance of the station proper for the fiscal year is $50,000. An addition of $1,000 is asked for for lectures and suitable entertainments for apprentice seamen. We have entertainments this side and we would like to have them on the other.

The CHAIRMAN. That was in the bill of last year?
Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. But that item for maintenance of dispensary building is new?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes; there are several employees in the artificer branch of the station whose pay for labor amounts to $13,501.25, and there is an amount of $5,356.40 for maintenance of the dispensary building, making in all $69,857.65.

The CHAIRMAN. How many men are there at that station, altogether?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Eight hundred, about, maximum. For the new dispensary building we want the following:

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The CHAIRMAN. The next is, "Naval Training Station, Rhode Island," $84,986. What is the necessity of an increase there? Admiral PILLSBURY. The appropriation for maintenance for the current year over 1908 was $8,511. This has been expended in the employment of electricians and civilian laborers at the heating and lighting plants of this station with the object of replacing enlisted men of the Navy who have formerly been assigned to this work. The increase of $5,475 is necessary to still further relieve the enlisted force by civilian employees, and it is only asked for that. It is necessary in the power plant. I do not think that the enlisted force should be engaged under what might be called the civil establishment.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is on page 20, "Naval Training Station, Great Lakes."

Admiral PILLSBURY. That, I believe, Admiral Ross will explain. I visited there and have it well in hand, but I think he could give you more intelligent advice about it.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well; we can get him any time.

Admiral PILLSBURY. The Naval War College, Rhode Island, is the

same.

The CHAIRMAN. There is a provision beginning at the bottom of page 22:

Provided, That the sum to be paid out of this appropriation under the direction of the Secretary of the Navy for clerical, drafting, inspection, and messenger service for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and ten, shall not exceed four thousand four hundred dollars.

Admiral PILLSBURY. That is just the same as it was last year.

The CHAIRMAN. That is putting a limitation on the amount of the lump appropriation that can be spent for clerical assistance?

Admiral PILLSBURY. That sum is for the pay of draftsmen, librarian, and copyists, amounting to $4,400.

Mr. HOBSON. Under the item for the Naval War College, Rhode Island, I see "purchase of books of reference, four hundred dollars." Does that cover the additions to the library?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

Mr. HOBSON. It has been at that figure constantly?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I think so. I think that is what it has always been.

Mr. HOBSON. Is it ever in order to ask a witness what the recommendation was from a subordinate?

The CHAIRMAN. Why, yes; I think so.

Mr. HOBSON. If it is, I merely want to ask whether the War College has not constantly asked for a larger allowance for the library? Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

Mr. LOUDENSLAGER. There has not been a year since its establishment that they have not?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir.

Mr. LOUDENSLAGER. And there never will be, will there?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I am not so sure about that.

Mr. HOBSON. Do you regard $400 for the purchase of books of reference for the War College as sufficient?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I should like to have it doubled.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions? If not, we will go on to the "Naval Home, Philadelphia, Pa." How about this store

laborer at $480? Have you such an employee there?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir. Such an employee is badly needed for the weighing of material received, for the care and issue of stores, and similar work. This item has been approved by the department. The CHAIRMAN. He is a civilian, of course?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. On page 24 you ask for an increase in the pay of the engineer for elevator and machinery of $120.

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes. Since the discontinuance of the employment of a master mechanic at the Home, which was two or three years ago, a good deal of additional responsibility has been thrown on this engineer. He has to look out for the boilers and steam heating system, the pumps, laundry machinery, elevator, electric lighting, and so forth, and it is considered that an increase of $10 a month in his pay is no more than what would be right.

Mr. ROBERTS. This compensation does not come out of the Treasury?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir.

Mr. ROBERTS. It comes out of the fund of the Home?

Admiral PILLSBURY. It comes out of the fund of the Home.

Mr. OLCOTT. Does that man get his board and lodging and $60 month?

Admiral PILLSBURY. He does not get his board. I do not kn whether he lodges within the grounds or not. I do not think does.

Mr. LOUDENSLAGER. Does he not get his board?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir.

Mr. LOUDENSLAGER. And he only gets $720 a year?

Admiral PILLSBURY. He only gets $600 a year. We ask for increase for him to $720 a year. The Government does not furni its employees with board.

Mr. LOUDENSLAGER. I did not know but what the home did. Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir; they furnish board only for bei ficiaries.

The CHAIRMAN. For "cemetery, burial expenses and headstones you have an increase from $800 to $1,000.

Admiral PILLSBURY. The fund is not sufficient to keep the p in good condition, and similar to the surrounding plats.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is "repaving roadways, to be imm diately available, seven thousand dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. Heretofore if anything was remaining fr the fund for the support of beneficiaries it had been decided that could be used for any purpose connected with the home, and they had $50 left they would put it on the repair of roadways t last of the year. They did that whenever there was a surplus. has been decided now that it is not right and legal, and the roads : getting in very poor condition and need a considerable amount renewing. They are paved with asphalt blocks, and the blocks ha already been turned once, so that they can not turn them back The CHAIRMAN. The next is for transportation of "sick and insɛ beneficiaries, their attendants, and necessary subsistence for bo to and from other government hospitals.'

Admiral PILLSBURY. That is for transportation. We have to se them to the consumptive hospital at Las Animas and to Washingt to the Insane Hospital.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is "Naval Home, supplemental: To p beneficiaries for extra duties performed by them at the home fr March first, nineteen hundred and six, to June thirtieth, ninete hundred and six, in established ratings, one thousand two hundı and five dollars and sixty-six cents."

Admiral PILLSBURY. There are some extra duties that the be ficiaries can perform, and it is desirable that they should receive little extra compensation. As I understand, they have this allowan at all the soldiers' homes. They are permitted to pay them sm sums when they do perform extra duties, or, rather, when they perfo duties. The sum asked for is only $1,200.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to ask you about this provision to pay c tain men named here in the bill for services rendered during the seco half of March, 1906.

Admiral PILLSBURY. That has come up before the committee two separate occasions.

The CHAIRMAN. It has gone out on a point of order every time

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