Admiral HOLLYDAY. I could not say just what it would cost. I looked over the board's estimates and their unit of price seemed to be high to me, and for that reason I say I do not think it would cost as much as they estimate. The unit of price was 15 cents a cubic yard, I believe.

Mr. HOBSON. Do you think it would cost half as much if we had our own plant?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes; I would not think it would be safe to say less than $75,000.

Mr. ROBERTS. Do you know if this plan of the engineers calling for $1,400,000 contemplates any jetty work to scour the channel?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. They are going to build dikes which will help to scour the channel, and it seems to me that ought to prevent the deposit of mud. That comes in from a body of water known as San Pablo Bay, which is 15 miles long and 10 miles wide and very shallow. San Pablo Bay comes into Carquinez Straits, and that in turn takes the effluent of Sacramento River.

Mr. ROBERTS. Is there any way of putting a dam across there? Admiral HOLLYDAY. There were five projects discussed by this engineering commission. They discussed that project. It ran up into a good deal of money, and they saw objections to it. They discussed those five projects and recommended one of them.

Mr. ROBERTS. I recall some years ago somebody connected with the Navy Department laid out to me a plan for taking care of that channel by jetties.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. There have been some jetties put in, and I think there has been enough found out from that to know that it will help to keep the channel clear.

Mr. ROBERTS. If the jetties keep the channel clear, $125,000 will be an extravagant cost.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. There is the part of the channel in San Pablo Bay which could not be controlled by jetties or any such scheme. That is 7 miles from the navy-yard.

Mr. LOUD. The big dredges at Panama are equivalent to eight steam shovels, as I have heard it stated. Is it not possible that a dredge of that type might keep that channel clear if used there continuously?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. I do not think there is any question about it keeping it clear. I think it is simply a question of getting the money for it.

Mr. LOUD. The maintenance of a dredge of that character would not cost $125,000 a year, or anything like it, would it?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. No, sir; I do not think so.

Mr. LOUD. There are 40 men employed on one of those dredges? Admiral HOLLYDAY. There are a few items of expense, such as the upkeep of the plant and the caring for the materials.

Mr. HOBSON. Using the hydraulic method, you have to care for the material?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. As long as we have low ground to pump the material on that would be a small problem.

Mr. LOUD. Is there a dumping ground close by?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes; there is a dumping ground close by, and I think San Pablo Bay could be used. They could commence building out from Mare Island.

Mr. BUTLER. Is there not danger of that material coming out again?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Not if we pump it up above high water. That is what we have been doing.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is "locomotive cranes, fifty-five thousand dollars." How do you regard that?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is ninth in importance. The present 40-ton dry-dock crane has been in practically constant use since its purchase some eleven years ago, and it is almost worn out. It has been repaired and its life thus somewhat prolonged. Its reach, also, is too short to serve dry dock No. 2, which will soon be completed. The appropriation requested is, therefore, for the purchase of a crane of a type somewhat similar to the present one.

The CHAIRMAN. "Sewer system, extension, ten thousand dollars." Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is sixth. The yard sewer system is inadequate, and during the rainy season several of the sewers have overflowed. Ponds also form in various parts of the yard. Sewers should be laid in advance of the paving to avoid tearing up the streets. The CHAIRMAN. "Naval prison, extension, ninety-five thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is tenth in importance. The naval prison has been frequently overcrowded. It contains a number of old masonry cells which are veritable dungeons and entirely out of accord with modern prison practice. Appropriations previously made were sufficient to provide an additional wing capable of containing 114 cells, but it was possible to build only 72 of these cells. It is proposed to complete the remaining 42 cells in the south wing, to build a north wing of similar dimensions and containing 114 cells, and to remove the old masonry cells of the original prison and construct instead an extension to contain toilet and bathrooms, kitchen, etc.

Mr. HOBSON. Is there not any other place on the Pacific coast of ar y size?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is the only naval prison on the Pacific coast. They have a prison ship at Puget Sound, the Nipsic, and at Mare Island I think they have a small ship that they did use.

We finished up one of the extensions of the naval prison last year. In connection with the naval prison the same wording should be used as at Portsmouth. Do you recall that, about the employment of these prisoners so as to read: "Naval prison extension, this amount to be expended so as to give the maximum amount of employment to the inmates of the prison, ninety-five thousand dollars." If that is approved, I would recommend that that be included.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is "Ordnance storehouse, one hundred thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is sixteenth in importance. Since building No. 122 was diverted from the general storekeeper to the department of steam engineering, a fireproof building for receiving and storing ordnance material has become an actual necessity. Since that time ordnance stores have been kept in various locations and it has been impossible to properly keep stock or inventory of the material. At the present time the larger part of the outfits for the Milwaukee, California, and South Dakota are stored in the shed between building 77 and the chemical laboratory. The value of the material stored in this fragile and inflammable building, in a dangerous loca

tion from fire, is $700,000. The building is not fireproof and it could be easily tampered with by individuals, mischievous or criminal.

The CHAIRMAN. "Improvements to building numbered sixty-nine, four thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is eighth in importance. It is desired to fit additional lights and monitors for building No. 69, general storehouse, to extend the mezzanine floor in the clothing section, and to rebuild the small storerooms, as well as to make alterations in the stairway into the general storekeeper's office, and other minor changes as suggested by the general storekeeper. It is particularly desired to install a system of trolley hoists for use in handling material to the mezzanine floors.

The CHAIRMAN. "Improvements to building numbered forty-five, four thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is thirteenth in importance. This item includes a monitor for building No. 45, equipment sail loft, etc., to provide light and ventilation in the attic, which place is used for picking hair, making cushions, etc. In its present condition it is not adapted for occupancy for any purpose whatever.

The CHAIRMAN. "Improvements to building numbered forty-four, two thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is fourteenth in importance. The present roof of this building is of wood, covered with shingles; it is very old and there is great danger of its catching fire, especially as the building is used for a drop-forge plant. There have recently been two fires on account of the forges below this roof. It is proposed to construct a steel frame and corrugated iron roof, with a monitor.

The CHAIRMAN. "Extension of building numbered sixty-two, three thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is seventeenth in importance. The south side of this building, ship-fitters shed, which is open, should be inclosed for protection from the wind and heavy rains. At present temporary canvas curtains are used for this purpose, but they are insufficient, and it is proposed to install sliding glass doors.

The CHAIRMAN. "Repairs to building numbered one hundred and sixteen, three thousand five hundred dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is fifth in importance. The floor of building No. 116, which is the construction and repair machine shop, is of wood laid on concrete. The wood has dry rotted and should be renewed. It is proposed to lay a heavier wood floor, protected by coal tar.

The CHAIRMAN. "Torpedo-boat wharf, extension, ten thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is fifteenth in importance. The arrival of the Atlantic coast torpedo-boat flotilla proved the wharfage facilities to be inadequate. At present temporary dolphins are used for moorings, but the torpedo boats are banked several deep and are insecurely moored. Additional berthing space is very necessary.

The CHAIRMAN. "Crane track, extension, seventy-five thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is second in importance. That is for the crane for the new dry dock which is about to be completed. It will be completed in the next three or four months.

The CHAIRMAN. "Barracks for enlisted men (to cost six hundred thousand dollars), ten thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That was put in by the direction of the department, and I suppose the department or the Bureau of Navigation could very probably inform you on that point. It is a question of policy whether the enlisted men will be quartered on shore or in the receiving ships. It is proposed to substitute for the present receiving ship a barracks on shore for the enlisted men. The present receiving-ship facilities are inadequate and under this system the best sanitation is not practicable. It is the intention to make the Mare Island yard the principal center for the Pacific coast, from which will be supplied the enlisted men required for the fleet in the Pacific Ocean. The amount required for the coming fiscal year is simply for the preparation of plans and specifications and for the necessary preliminary investigations incident thereto.

The CHAIRMAN. Now we come to the navy-yard at Puget Sound, Wash. The first is "water system, extension, eight thousand dollars." Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is thirteenth in importance. The increased use of fresh water will soon demand a larger connection with the outside system, and a new meter with screens, by-pass, etc. New water connections with buildings are demanded from time to time and extensions to reach new buildings or other points where fresh water is needed. New piers must be equipped with fresh-water connections for ships.

The CHAIRMAN. "Stone and concrete dry dock, to continue (to cost two million dollars), one million dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That estimate of $1,000,000 can be reduced to $400,000.

Mr. PADGETT. Before getting away from this last estimate, you have given us the relative importance of these items as one stands to the other, but you have not given us, except in one or two cases, any explanation of the necessity for them originally, as an original proposition. You have stated their relative importance as compared to each other. Now I would suggest that if you have any suggestions to offer as to why these things should be done, we would be glad to hear them.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. I would be glad to answer any questions of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you enumerate these in your report?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes, in my report there is a little paragraph in regard to each one.

The CHAIRMAN. I think it would be well for you to put those notes right into your hearing.

Mr. ROBERTS. If you get that $400,000 that will make only $500,000 for that dry dock?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. No; I think we have $400,000, and that would give us $800,000 to take us up to July 1, 1910.

Mr. ROBERTS. That would give you nearly half the money for it? Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes.

Mr. ROBERTS. Up to the present time?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes. It was to cost $2,000,000.

Mr. ROBERTS. Why can you not use any more money? Are they making slow progress on the dock?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. We are just completing the signing up of the papers of the contract. There was a very large bond, and the contractor has not been able to make the bond until now. I do not know whether it has been signed or whether it has gotten to the department or not. I got a telegram from him four or five days ago saying that the bond had been made up and mailed. It would go to the department, so it has not reached my office.

Mr. ROBERTS. Then the money heretofore appropriated has not been expended?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. No, sir.

Mr. ROBERTS. And it has simply been obligated under this contract? Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROBERTS. Do you think if the contract is executed in the next year they can do $800,000 worth of work?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes; this money would not become available until the 1st of July, and then it would run to July 1, 1910. The money we are talking about now would run us up to 1910, and I think he can do that amount of work.

Mr. ROBERTS. You think he can do that much work?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. I would not like to estimate on any less. They are doing some pretty quick work here lately on dry docks. At Mare Island, after fooling away four or five years getting to work, they almost built the docks in six months.

Mr. PADGETT. There is an appropriation here, "stone and concrete dry dock, to continue (to cost two million dollars), one million dollars." Do you want that sum, or how much?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. I want $400,000. I think $400,000 will do for this year.

Mr. ROBERTS. And that $400,000, with what has already been appropriated, gives $800,000 available. Did you give the reason why you would not recommend building another dry dock at Mare Island?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is on account of the trouble in getting to the dock, on account of the lack of depth of water. We have got the shops there and the plant there. We are just finishing one large dry dock there and we have a small dry dock there.

Mr. ROBERTS. But if we finish this dredging you would be all right there, would you not?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Then I might change my mind as the dredging went along, but I think Hunters Point is the best place inside of the Golden Gate for docking vessels.

Mr. BUTLER. You might change your mind on what? This is very interesting to me.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. We might accomplish it for less money, and we might find we could take care of the channel for less money, and there would be no question about vessels coming in there, and if all those difficulties were done away with I might change my mind about building another dock there.

Mr. BUTLER. You do not mean upon the advisability of maintaining the station where it is, but upon the advisability of building another dock?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes, sir. As it is, I would not recommend it. The CHAIRMAN. The next is "Sewer systems, extensions, eight thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is sixth in importance for Puget Sound.