paring and delivering the dock, making the estimate run from $110,000 to $240,000, according to the location of the dock.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is, "Naval station, Key West, Florida: Latrines, five thousand dollars;" concrete cistern, twenty-five thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. I regard the concrete cistern as of first importance and the latrines as of second importance. We have to distill a great deal of the water down there, and when it does rain if we had better facilities for storing water it would add very much to the station.

(At 1.15 o'clock p. m. the committee took a recess until 2 o'clock p. m.)

AFTER RECESS.

Wednesday, December 9, 1908.

The Committee reconvened at 2.30 p. m., Hon. George Edmund Foss (chairman) presiding.

STATEMENT OF ADMIRAL R. C. HOLLYDAY, CHIEF OF THE BUREAU OF YARDS AND DOCKS, NAVY DEPARTMENT-Continued.

The CHAIRMAN. We start on page 72, "Navy-yard, Mare Island, California." You have indicated the importance of these items at these other places. Will you indicate the importance of the items under this head?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. "Railroad system, extension, twenty thousand dollars." That is twelfth in importance. Many parts of the yard can not be reached by teams, and even if roads were constructed so they could be reached railway transportation would be much cheaper. Much of the present railway system is in bad condition and requires complete renewal. The rolling stock is also insufficient and inadequate. There should be additional cars of both large and small capacity. With the construction of colliers and the increase of the naval force on the Pacific coast, the business of transportation at this yard has increased far beyond the capacity of the present railway system. A landing slip for cars brought alongside on floats should be provided; also an additional locomotive, in order that freight may be hauled directly to the storehouse or shops.

The CHAIRMAN. You mark that as twelfth in order of importance? Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is, if the central power plant is of first importance. The electric power for this yard is largely furnished by a private corporation from power lines fed by hydro-electric plants in the Sierras. The entire output of the company is taken and the demand is greater than the supply. Conditions might arise at any time under which the current would be shut off. The government should be independent of any outside company for any object so important as electric power. In its last annual estimates the bureau stated that $385,000 would be required for the completion of the central power plant, but only $100,000 were appropriated. The bureau now finds that $225,000 are required to complete this project.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you need all of that?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Every cent of it.

The CHAIRMAN. Two hundred and fifty thousand dollars?
Admiral HOLLYDAY. Two hundred and fifty-five thousand dollars.
The CHAIRMAN. Will that complete it?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That will complete it.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is "Grading and paving, extension, twenty thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is seventh in importance. One of the greatest needs of this navy-yard is paving. In winter some streets are almost impassable. Unless familiar with the conditions in this neighborhood it is difficult to realize the soft, sticky mass to which this dobe soil reduces when saturated with water. Teams are able to move in winter less than one-third of the loads that they can haul on ordinary roads, whereas with good paving they could haul twice the ordinary load. A very small proportion of the streets of the yard has been paved and a liberal appropriation can be used to great advantage.

The CHAIRMAN. "Quay wall, extension and pier, five hundred thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is nineteenth in importance. There is now only about 3,000 feet of sea wall available for berthing space at this navy-yard, and this space is broken by a ferry slip, shipbuilding ways, and the dry-dock entrance. Probably at no navy-yard is work upon ships under repair so hampered by lack of berthing space as at Mare Island. The channel is so narrow and at certain stages of the tide the current so swift that it is out of the question to extend piers at right angles to the water front of the yard. It is proposed to construct an open-pier causeway with spurs extending up and down stream so that ships lying in their berths will be parallel to the direction of the current and thus afford least obstruction thereto. This method of constructing berthing space is also suggested by the joint board which recently reported upon the project for deep water to Mare Island.

The CHAIRMAN. "New elevators in buildings numbered sixty-nine and seventy-one, ten thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is third in importance. These buildings, which are the general storehouses of the yard, have two elevators which have been in use a number of years. They are unable to meet the demands upon them, frequently breaking down and requiring a great deal of attention in the way of repairs. The buildings need modern elevators of standard capacity, in order that freight may be handled with proper speed and economy.

The CHAIRMAN. "Dredging plant for improvement of channel, two hundred and fifty thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is eleventh in importance. The joint army and navy board appointed by direction of the President to investigate the approaches to the Mare Island Navy-Yard, so that ships of the deepest draft can go to the yard, reported in favor of the purchase of a dredging plant in order that a certain part of the work of improvement, together with the maintenance of the channel after completion, might be done by yard labor. It stated that with a government-owned plant the work could be done at a much smaller price than that which is likely to obtain if a contract or contracts are let. The board's opinion in this regard is borne out by the

results shown by dredges owned by the War Department and operated by the Corps of Engineers of the army. As stated by the board, not only will the cost of improvements be greatly cheapened, but a dredging plant will pay for itself within a very short time. Furthermore, by having a dredging plant available, the department will have the assurance of maintaining a dredged channel without the delays incident to awaiting the completion of other work, as often happens where contract dredges must be relied upon.

The CHAIRMAN. "Improvement of channel, to continue, three hundred and fifty thousand dollars."

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is fourth in importance. There is now a depth of about 21 feet at mean low tide at the entrance to Mare Island Strait, which is equivalent to 27 feet at mean high tide. This is somewhat less than the minimum depth in the channel across San Pablo Bay. This latter channel, originally dredged to 31 feet below mean low water, has since been filled with soft mud, so that the controlling depth there is about 23 feet, mean low water. There is just sufficient depth of water to enable battle ships and armored cruisers to reach this navy-yard at high tide, and but for the fact that the mud is very soft it would be unsafe to take the risk of bringing large vessels to the navy-yard.

The joint board of army engineers and naval civil engineers recently appointed by direction of the President to investigate the subject of deep water at the Mare Island Navy-Yard has reported in favor of the extension of the present system. Whatever method might be adopted, it will first be necessary to redredge Mare Island Strait to a depth of 30 feet, mean low water. As recommended by the joint board, certain dike extensions will also be necessary. It is for these purposes that the bureau submits the estimates.

Mr. BUTLER. Would you want all that money this year, $350,000? Admiral HOLLYDAY. No; I think $150,000 would be what we would spend, especially if you gave the dredging plant. I think we can do it very much cheaper if we have a dredging plant, and if we do that I doubt if we would use even $150,000.

Mr. HOBSON. What are the chief implements in the dredging plant?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. It would be just the dredger, and then we would have to buy some light pipe for taking the material ashore in case it was taken out by the hydraulic process. In this case we would do the work by the hydraulic process.

Mr. HOBSON. You can use the hydraulic process there?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes; we know enough about it to know that we could use that; and then some pontoons to carry the pipes, and some small floats, and that would make the plant.

Mr. ROBERTS. Is not the chief objection to this navy-yard the fact that we can not get vessels up to it?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes; the lack of deep water is the chief objection, and in fact the only objection, to that navy-yard. Aside from that it ranks with any navy-yard we have.

Mr. ROBERTS. It is poorly located?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is, so far as the depth of channel is concerned.

Mr. ROBERTS. Are there not sites around the bay where there would be plenty of water in front?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Not many. I do not think there are any good sites.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this appropriation asked for a part of the scheme for a navy-yard there?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. This $350,000?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes. At the time of that estimate the Secretary had seen the report of the board and knew what he was going to approve, and this was a part of the estimate.

Mr. ROBERTS. That will mean that we are to stay at Mare Island and maintain a channel to it for all time to come, provided we adopt this scheme here?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes. The other alternative is to get a site inside of San Francisco Bay, inside of the Golden Gate. We have a fine plant there at Mare Island that cost about $16,000,000. If you went down to the bay you would certainly have to spend as much money, and you would not have as many advantages as you have

there.

Mr. THOMAS. Could not that be picked up and moved at less expense than that?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. No sir; you could not move the buildings. They are principally brick buildings with slate roofs. There are some structural-steel buildings that have been constructed later, and they could be moved and the salvage in them would amount to considerable.

Mr. THOMAS. Could you not maintain two yards, one for the lighter and one for the heavy draft ships?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. I do not think so. I would never recommend building another dry dock at Mare Island. The finest property in San Francisco Bay is the docks at Hunters Point, that has been bought by Mr. Schwab. The Government ought to have had those docks.

Mr. BUTLER. How far from this navy-yard are they?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. About 33 miles. The Union Iron Works is about 3 miles from them. They have two docks and are talking about building a third dock. They have a dock about 600 feet long there. The Union Iron Works and the Risdon Iron Works do their work there on the commercial ships. They send men down and do the necessary work in the dock and then take the ship to the yard and do the balance of the work there. There is not a thing in the world at Hunters Point except two dry docks and a pumping plant; not a building except its power plant.

Mr. ROBERTS. Is there not plenty of water in front of the Union Iron Works place?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. There is enough water.

Mr. ROBERTS. Enough for battle ships?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. If they were deeply laden I do not know whether they could go up close or not.

Mr. ROBERTS. I understand there is plenty of water there for navy purposes.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Probably there is.

Mr. ROBERTS. How much territory is there in the limits of the Union Iron Works plant; do you know?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes; I am familiar in a general way with that.

Mr. ROBERTS. Is there any land adjoining that could be obtained for navy-yard purposes?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. As I recall it, I do not know whether there is more land that could be gotten or not. I could not say about that. Mr. LOUD. What draft boat can go up to the navy-yard now? Admiral HOLLYDAY. We had the Missouri up there last summer. Mr. ROBERTS. Drawing how much?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. She was probably drawing 26 feet.
Mr. LOUD. Twenty-six feet?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Probably that.

The CHAIRMAN. Why could we not do as the commercial people do, dock the vessels there and repair them at the navy-yard? Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is my idea of the thing to be done. Mr. LOUD. Did the Missouri keep off the bottom all the way? Admiral HOLLYDAY. No; I guess she rubbed against some pretty soft mud, but it did not hurt her any. But that was the first battle ship that ever was up to Mare Island. Cruisers, large vessels drawing almost as much water, 510 feet long, have been going up there constantly.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean she experienced no great difficulty on the way up?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes, sir; as far as I am advised.
The CHAIRMAN. It is well located, is it not?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. It could not be better located. The enemy could take San Francisco, and still they would not get the Mare Island Navy-Yard; and the climate is superb, a great deal better than San Francisco. It is out of the trade winds, and you can work there every day in the year. It is never very hot and never very cold, and there is a fine labor market, a navy-yard town of almost 6,000 inhabitants. Almost every man is interested in the navy-yard one way or another, and they are fine mechanics. They draw from San Francisco in addition, and they have a boat and train service almost every hour.

Mr. THOMAS. As to putting the dredging in the first class as to importance, what do you say?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. This board appointed by the President has made a report to the President, and he sent it to Congress, and the report will be sent to the committee. As I recollect, the project which they recommend, and which is approved by the department, is to cost $1,400,000. I think there was one item that the department did not approve, that is the removal of commission rock, estimated to cost $112,000. The department thought it would not approve that item, because it did not think it was necessary at this time, at any rate.

Mr. ROBERTS. One hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars is estimated annual expense to keep it clear?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. The annual expense to keep it up. I think myself that the estimate is high.

Mr. LOUD. Is it possible for the Government to maintain a dredge similar to those two, the Ancon and the Culebra, down at Panama, which are kept busy dredging to maintain the channel?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. To maintain the channel, and I do not think

it would cost anything like $125,000 a year.

Mr. HOBSON. What do you think it would cost?