The CHAIRMAN. And also please furnish us with a statement of the expenditures under the various items in this paragraph, as you have done every year.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That is in the report.

The CHAIRMAN. Please make it a part of the hearing.
Admiral HOLLYDAY. The statement is as follows:

Mr. ROBERTS. Why does this language read, "Two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, submitted?"

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That means in addition to what we had last year. We had $1,250,000 last year, and the $250,000 makes $1,500,000. Mr. ROBERTS. That is merely explanatory?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. HOBSON. Explain why the limit in italics is placed at $425,000, when last year, I understand, $236,000 covered it?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. The Civil Establishment fund was also used. In addition to that, this is a new thing, and if the money ran out we would have to stop work. We are not able to estimate closely the first time it goes into effect. I think the amount is ample.

Mr. HOBSON. That is a margin of $15,000?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes, sir. I think that is only a safe margin on the first year. We will try it.

Mr. ROBERTS. That also includes the 10 per cent increase for your civil employees?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. We were not allowed to submit any increase. We understood that that would be taken up in some bill formed along the lines of the Keep Commission.

Mr. PADGETT. Did you not make a 10 per cent increase last fall in the compensation paid your per diem men?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. I think so at the navy-yards, but I do not know whether they did or not. I think the President issued some

such order.

Mr. PADGETT. Was there not bureau?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. No, sir.

an increase of 10 per cent in your

That is fixed by law.

not be an increase by executive order.
Mr. PADGETT. You have no per diem men?

There could

Admiral HOLLYDAY. No, sir; they are authorized by law and under the legislative bill. Each clerk is fixed and the amount he is to be paid, and that could not be changed except by law.

Mr. PADGETT. Under this provision here, with the limitation of $425,000, is it contemplated to increase the number of clerks during the next year when the Civil Establishment is abolished.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. No; I can not say that it is. The number would only be increased in the event of the work requiring an increase. It is not contemplated now.

Mr. PADGETT. Is this estimate submitted with a view to increasing the compensation over the amount now fixed in the Civil Establishment list?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes; in a way, it is. The amount is fixed so as to have a safe margin to work on and not run out of money.

Mr. PADGETT. I mean the amount of salary paid to the employees; is it contemplated to raise their pay?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. I think so. I have no definite knowledge whether the salaries will be raised or not. That matter would be determined by the Secretary.

Mr. PADGETT. About how much increase is contemplated under the discretion given in this lump-sum appropriation.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. The amount of 10 per cent has generally been talked of.

Mr. PADGETT. Under the provision as given here, there is no limitation in the law upon the amount of compensation or salary to be paid each man?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. No, sir.

Mr. PADGETT. What is your opinion as to the propriety, advisability, or necessity of fixing a maximum limit upon general clerks, not including special experts or scientific employees?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. My opinion is that it had better be left to the Secretary of the Navy. Those things are scanned very closely, and I do not think anybody will get any more than he is entitled to. That was the real objection to Civil Establishment. The rate of pay was established by law, and as conditions changed we could never lower or raise the pay, and a man got so much, regardless of changed conditions, since the rates of pay were fixed in many cases years ago. They were fixed by law and could not be changed.

Mr. PADGETT. To make myself, perhaps, clearer, in the army appropriation bill they have this policy of a lump-sum appropriation, with discretion in the Secretary to fix the compensation, subject to a limitation of $1,800 a year as the maximum amount that can be paid to any one ordinary clerk. What is your idea about that?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. We have not any ordinary clerks getting that much money or anything like it.

Mr. PADGETT. I understand, but what is your idea as to policy of leaving it absolutely without limit or fixing a maximum limit over which they can not go?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. My judgment would be that that can be left to the discretion of the Secretary of the Navy. If you fix a limit, all will want to get that maximum limit.

Mr. ROBERTS. What would you think of a limitation in your bureau that the salary of no clerk should exceed a given amount?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. I would not advise it. I think it best to be left with the Secretary of the Navy.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is "Navy-Yard, Portsmouth, New Hampshire: Naval prison extension, two hundred and fifty thousand dollars." How much has that prison cost, all told, now?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Three hundred and sixty thousand dollars. I regard this as fourth in importance under the items submitted under navy-yard, Portsmouth. It is a prison for the whole navy, and really has nothing to do with the navy-yard, and should not be considered as an improvement to the yard plant.

Mr. ROBERTS. That is one wing?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. And the administration part. This estimate is for the other wing.

Mr. ROBERTS. You do not mean "the other wing" in the sense that it will only have two wings.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. This is the only wing contemplated at present, and that amount is what it will cost to complete the wing which is contemplated.

The CHAIRMAN. You have one wing.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. It will be the same size, and a duplicate of the wing we have at present, which contains 320 cells.

Mr. ROBERTS. Does this $250,000 include the equipment?
Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes, sir; everything.