Admiral PILLSBURY. These estimates were made up last August when we had very incomplete information as to how the appropriation for 1908, upon which the estimate for 1910 is based, was running. Later returns, which gave evidence of a deficiency, enabled us to make a more careful estimate.

The CHAIRMAN. The year before that it was not over $400,000. Admiral PILLSBURY. In 1908 our estimate for transportation of $450,000 was cut down to $400,000, and a deficiency has occurred which will bring the amount required up to $676,660.

The CHAIRMAN. The year before?

Admiral PILLSBURY. 1908?

The CHAIRMAN. I mean the year before that.
Admiral PILLSBURY. 1907 ?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. CALLAHAN. There was a deficiency that year of $75,000, making the total amount appropriated $455,000. A little over $10,000 of this remained unexpended.

The CHAIRMAN. I know, but there has been a larger deficiency here than the increase in the amount would account for, during the last few years, and I was trying to get at the reason for it.

Mr. CALLAHAN. The rates of transportation have increased.

Admiral PILLSBURY. We do not begin to get the favorable rates from the railroads that we did.

Mr. LOUDENSLAGER. That has not changed this year from what it was last year?

Admiral PILLSBURY. The rates?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. There is $645,000 there. With about onesixth more men that would amount to an increase of $75,000 this year.

Admiral PILLSBURY. As a matter of fact the expenditures for 1908 were about $141,000 over what was appropriated, and it is reasonable to expect that more money than has been appropriated will be required for the current fiscal year.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you furnish us an itemized statement of the expenditures under those general heads, for instance?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I wish you would.

Admiral PILLSBURY. I will go back to 1907 and show as fully as I can the causes of the gradual growth in the estimates for transportation. Statement in explanation of the large increase of expenditure under the appropriation "transportation, navigation," during the fiscal year 1908 over the previous years. For the fiscal year 1905 there was appropriated "for the transportation of enlisted men and apprentices at home and abroad; transportation and subsistence en route to their homes, if residents of the United States, of enlisted men and apprentices discharged on medical survey; transportation and subsistence en route to the places of enlistment, if residents of the United States, of enlisted men and apprentices discharged on account of expiration of enlistment; apprehension and delivery of deserters and stragglers, and for the railway guides and other expenses incident to transportation," a total of $319,000. Of this amount, $260,185.03 was expended. There was no subdivision made of this expenditure with the exception of the last item, "for railway guides and other expenses incident to transportation," which amounted to $8. As all transportation for enlisted men of the navy during that year was furnished on transportation requests, each request stating the object of journey, viz, "transferred for duty," "transfer of recruit," "discharged on medical survey," " "discharged on expiration of enlistment," or "transfer of deserter or straggler," to find the cost of each subdivision of the appropriation would necessitate going over all the transportation requests issued during that year and picking out each item in accordance with the object of journey as stated.

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The same conditions also exist in connection with determining the expenditure under the subdivisions of the appropriation during the fiscal years 1906 and 1907. The explanation of the increase, however, is apparent from the following figures:

During the fiscal year 1905 there were enlisted at Boston, New York, Buffalo, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Chicago, and San Francisco, and also by three traveling recruiting parties covering the principal cities in the United States, 11,719 men. There were discharged on account of expiration of enlistment during this year 3,929 men, and discharged on account of physical disability 844 men.

For the fiscal year 1906 there was appropriated for the transportation of enlisted men a total of $380,000. Of this amount $322,362.22 was expended. During the year there were enlisted 13,418 men.

The bureau began this year keeping a record of the number of men enlisted at the different stations. During the year increased efforts were also made to obtain recruits in the Great Lake region and in the Middle States.

Picking out the States on the coast and in the interior where the greatest number of recruits were secured, we find that there were enlisted during the fiscal year 1906 in—

There were discharged on account of expiration of enlistment during this year 5,294; on account of physical disability, 717 men.

During the fiscal year 1907 there was appropriated a total of $455,000. Of this amount $285,735.42 was expended on transportation requests, and $158,841.77 under the provision of the appropriation of this year providing that hereafter enlisted men, discharged on account of expiration of enlistment, shall receive in lieu of transportation and subsistence, travel allowance of 4 cents per mile from the place of discharge to the place of enlistment, for travel in the United States." There were enlisted in the navy during the fiscal year 1907 a total of 14,329 men. Taking the same States into consideration as above, we find that there were enlisted in

During the last calendar year of 1907 the St. Louis office enlisted more men than any other, excepting the New York City office, which, with its immense advantages of larger population, seafaring class, knowledge of the navy, etc., exceeded it by barely 300.

There were discharged on account of expiration of enlistment during this year 6,602 men, and on account of physical disability 735 men.

For the fiscal year 1908 there has been appropriated $535,000, and there has been expended $296,236.52 on account of men discharged on expiration of enlistment and paid 4 cents per mile travel allowance, and $380,423.48 for the remaining items, making a total of $676,660, which, together with unpaid bills, will make an estimated deficit of about $141,660.

There were recruited during the fiscal year 1908. 29,919 men, and taking the same States for this year we find that there were secured in

There were discharged on account of expiration of enlistment during this year 7,248 men, and on account of physical disability 1,098 men.

Enlistments and discharges for fiscal years 1905 to 1908, inclusive, and amounts expended for travel for men who require transportation from place of enlistment to a training station, or from a ship or station at which discharged to place of enlistment.

• Including estimated deficiency appropriation necessary, $141,660.

Experience has demonstrated that the recruits obtained in the Great Lake region and the Middle West are of a comparatively high standard, and a much larger percentage of those who appear are accepted. The number rejected, due to lack of citizenship, unsatisfactory past record, illiteracy, physical defects, or failure to furnish evidence of age required by law, is much less at the inland stations than in the larger cities on the coast. The cost, however, has been higher during the past three or four years, and fewer contracts have been made with the railroad companies as the rates submitted in most cases were merely the public tariff.

It will therefore be seen that during the fiscal year 1908, 29,919 men were enlisted; the largest portion of which were secured at stations where the cost of transfer to the coast was the maximum amount.

The total enlistments for the calendar year 1907 at Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, and Denver were 3,818, while the total enlistments for the same time at Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Baltimore were 3,900.

The cost of sending about 4,000 recruits from the four stations mentioned in the interior to training stations would approximate $134,800; to which should be added cost of returning men discharged on medical survey, and the men enlisted in that section four years ago, who are now entitled to travel allowance of 4 cents a mile, or 25 per cent additional, or $168,000 in all; while the cost of sending 4,000 men from New York or Boston to training station or receiving ship would approximate $7,300, or a difference between the interior and coast recruiting stations of $161,200.

It might also be stated that in July of the present year the Central Pacific and Western Pacific Railroad companies completed the payment of their bonded indebtedness to the Government, and no further deduction was made from all bills of those companies remaining unpaid. These bills covered transportation furnished to the navy during the last quarter of the fiscal year. In explanation of this, it might be stated that up until that time the Treasury Department deducted from the bills of those companies a certain per cent on all travel between Ogden, Utah, and San Francisco, Cal. The amount deducted was credited to the railroad company's original indebtedness to the Government, but was not charged against the bureau's appropriation. In the future, on all travel between Ogden and San Francisco, the cost to the bureau will be the regular military tariff. It is estimated that the Navy Department saved to its appropriations on account of this bond-aid deduction on both freight and passenger tariff during the fiscal year 1908, $70,000, or about $35,000, to the appropriation "Transportation, navigation."

If, on the first of the next fiscal year, the quota of enlisted men is filled, it wil be necessary to calculate on 20,000 enlistments for the following fiscal year, number of men will be required to make up for the constant losses due to dese and routine discharges.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is on page 16, "Recruiting: Expe of recruiting for the naval service.' The recruiting is the sam last year?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. On the next item "Contingent," you have a for an increase from $12,462 to $20,000?

Admiral PILLSBURY. That appropriation has been gradually down. It was $25,000 in 1906 and it has since been reduced by committee to its present figure. The increase we now should h I believe. It is chiefly designed for the purchase of publications appliances for the instruction of enlisted men. We have a nu of classes to instruct our men in the peculiar work of the navy. electrician comes in, and maybe he is a pretty good electrician shore work, but is not for navy work, and we have to give him a schooling; the same is true of the seaman gunner's class at the n yard, and there is also a class for musicians. It is extremely har get good musicians at all. We have machinists and artificers co in, and cooks, and since we have taken the aliens out of the ship have to instruct even mess attendants in waiting on the table making up beds. There are quite a number of publications tha get out for these different classes. We have pamphlets for ele cians, artificers, machinists, stewards, and cooks, handy book apprentice seamen, etc. So that we really want money for t publications. There should be one for each branch. We have or ten different classes, some of them numbering as high as a hun and fifty. We pick up tools from the scrap piles of the navy-y that have been discarded, and we fit them up so as to instruct them. We pick up old dynamos that have been condemned and electricians put them together and study them up; and we take switchboards and things of that kind and let them experiment them. But we have no money that we can expend for any a ances. Even for the cooking school we have been taking old cop to use in instructing these people. The Bureau of Equipment other day kindly loaned us some appliances that were in better dition. But we have no money to go on with this work, and I bel it to be a very great necessity.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is gunnery exercises, $170,000.
There is an increase of $40,000 in that item.

Admiral PILLSBURY. I think that was a mistake, and I should fer that it should remain at $130,000, as it was.

The CHAIRMAN. "Outfits on first enlistment, one million two l dred and ninety-one thousand dollars." That is an increas $391,000.

Admiral PILLSBURY. An additional appropriation of $300,000 der this appropriation was carried by the deficiency act appro February 15, 1908, making the total appropriation for the $1,200,000. The first enlistments for the year 1908 numbered 17, the average actual strength of the navy for the year being 36, Proportionately, the first enlistments for the fiscal year of 1910

be 21,527, which at the same price of $60 per outfit would bring it up to this amount.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you an unexpended balance under this appropriation?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I think there will be a little, due chiefly to the fact that when a boy goes to one of the training stations, if it is summer time, he is not fitted out with all his winter clothing. If he is found not to be desirable or for any reason leaves the service, we save the difference between his summer outfit and his winter outfit. I do not know how much it will be at the end of a year. Mr. ROBERTS. If that same boy stays in into the cold weather, then he gets the balance of his outfit, up to $60?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes; when he is transferred to a cruising ship then he gets all of it that is necessary for him; and we find usually that it is all necessary.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is on page 18, "Maintenance of naval auxiliaries, six hundred and sixty-one thousand dollars."

Admiral PILLSBURY. I have the list of them all, with the cost per month of each. The only one that is omitted from it is the Solace. She is coming to this coast to be used as a hospital ship.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you more colliers than you had?

Admiral PILLSBURY. I have put in this list the three that are actually under construction, the Vulcan, the Hector, and the Mars. The two new navy-built colliers will have navy crews. They are high speed, and will have navy crews.

The CHAIRMAN. How much does that add to it?

Admiral PILLSBURY. The three new ones that are coming in?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Admiral PILLSBURY. There will be $3,680 for each of the three per month.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any new vessels?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Those are the three.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any of any kind over and above what you had last year, besides those three?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Would that make up the difference between the appropriation of last year and that of this year?

Admiral PILLSBURY. Yes, sir.

Mr. HOBSON. Does this item include the Relief?

Admiral PILLSBURY. This includes the Relief: $4,074 per month. Mr. ROBERTS. Will these three new colliers have navy crews?

Admiral PILLSBURY. No, sir; not these three that are enumerated here; but the two, the Prometheus and the Vestal, will have navy crews when they are ready for commission.

Mr. ROBERTS. Why should those not have navy crews as well as the other two?

Admiral PILLSBURY. We have not the officers and men.

Mr. ROBERTS. It is simply because of lack of officers and men? Admiral PILLSBURY. As soon as we have the officers and men we would be glad to have every one of the colliers officered and manned by the navy.

Mr. ROBERTS. Can you tell me how many men are designed to go on these three new colliers, how large the crews will be?