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everybody was well, as near as we could find out; every sick man was sent to the hospital before they started. Within a few days, on a battle ship with a thousand men, one man is taken with consumption. To keep that man on the ship until it gets to Magdalena Bay is a crime, because you can not isolate him on a crowded ship so as not to jeopardize the lives of other men. When you stop at different ports you can leave him there, but no one wants to care for such a man for any length of time. That is only one thing. When the ships left New York they had no cases and when they arrived in Magdalena Bay they had 19 cases of tuberculosis. A number of those cases were undoubtedly due to infection from the first case.

The CHAIRMAN. Nineteen cases of tuberculosis?

Surgeon-General Rixey. Yes, sir; it developed among the men on the ships.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you cure that disease?
Surgeon-General Rixey. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Can you make a permanent cure?

Surgeon-General Rixer. If they take the treatment early enough you can make a permanent cure provided the proper care and surroundings, as to climate, feeding, etc., is secured.

The CHAIRMAN. But will not the disease return in after years?

Surgeon-General Rixey. A man having had the disease and cured should keep free of the disease if he follows the rules laid down for such cases.

The CHAIRMAN. How many sick men did you have on the hospital ship?

Surgeon-General Rixey. When she reached Magdalena Bay?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

Surgeon-General Rixey. There were 158, comprising cases for operation (appendicitis and hernia), insanity; tuberculosis, pneumonia, etc. These cases were taken by the Relief to the Mare Island hospital. Then she came back to the fleet.

The CHAIRMAN. The Relief is at Manila?

Surgeon-General Rixey. The Relief is at Manila, pronounced unseaworthy. When that ship started from San Francisco before $60,000 was spent on her, the Secretary of the Navy ordered a board to report on her and she was pronounced safe to go with the fleet. The $60,000 was spent to make her fit to go. She went to sea and demonstrated the usefulness of a hospital ship. When she got to the Philippines the admiral decided that, in his opinion, she was not safe to come back with the fleet across the Atlantic and recommended that she be sent back to the west coast.

Mr. ROBERTS. Let me understand that. She was not strong enough to cross the Atlantic, but was strong enough to cross the Pacific?

Surgeon-General Rixey. After a survey was held a telegram came to the department that she should not go across the Atlantic, but recommending that she be sent back to San Francisco, stating that the margin of safety was so small that they did not dare to recommend it. They referred it to my bureau and I stated that I would take no responsibility in regard to the seaworthiness of the ship, that I would take all of the responsibility as far as the care of the sick was concerned and the running of the hospital, but the navigation and seaworthiness of the ship I had nothing to do with. She was ordered back to the Pacific coast, and encountered a typhoon, the engines broke down, the electric wires got short-circuited, and there were a number of fires on board, but she weathered the typhoon and got back under her own steam. The survey has been held and she has been declared unseaworthy and probably therefore she will have to remain out there. I told the Secretary that I could not recommend that she be sent to sea after having been pronounced unseaworthy, and I therefore recommended that she be sent to Olongapo.

Mr. ROBERTS. Did anything happen to her on the cruise to the

Surgeon-General RixwY. No.
Mr. ROBERTS. Was there any heavy weather?

Surgeon-General Kixey. Yes, sir; some heavy weather, but she stood it well until she was caught in the center of a typhoon.

Mr. ROBERTS. I am speaking now of between the time that she was pronounced seaworthy in San Francisco and the time that she was declared unseaworthy?

Surgeon-General Rixey. Yes, sir; but she had nothing to seriously disable her.

Mr. Roberts. What happened to her, what defects, that made her unseaworthy?

Surgeon-General Rixey. She was pronounced unseaworthy after the typhoon.

Mr. ROBERTS. I thought you said that she was pronounced unseaworthy before she started back?

Surgeon-General Rixey. Yes, sir. Before she started back for Manila the question came up whether she should accompany the fleet on its return home, as the Bureau of Medicine and Surgery wished, so that the sick of this fleet could be taken off the ships and cared for as required. A board was ordered by the Admiral of the fleet, and this board stated that she would be safe to accompany the fleet by a "narrow margin" and recommended that she return to the Pacific coast. This was ordered by the department, and when she was caught in the typhoon she was carrying out these orders. By this typhoon she was seriously damaged, and then a board pronounced her unseaworthy, and I submit to the Congress that our sick and injured in the navy should not be carried in such a makeshift of a hospital ship as the Relief, and I have urged upon members of the committee the necessity of building two hospital ships.

Mr. ROBERTS. What was the Relief before she became a hospital ship?

Surgeon-General Rixwy. She was a coastwise merchant steamer.
Mr. ROBERTS. A merchant ship?
Surgeon-General RIXEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. ROBERTS. She came from the army?
Surgeon-General RIXEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. ROBERTS. Do you know how old she was?

Surgeon-General Rixwy. No, sir. She was good in every respect, except that she was not built for a hospital ship.

Mr. PADGETT. Was the Relief built to cross the ocean?
Surgeon-General Rixwy. No, sir. She was a coastwise steamer.
Mr. PADGETT. For the coastwise trade?


Surgeon-General RiXey. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROBERTS. That is a most extraordinary thing, that she was pronounced seaworthy and then deteriorated so rapidly.

Surgeon-General Rixey. The reports in regard to that are all on file in the department. We ought to have two hospital ships-one on the Atlantic and one on the Pacific—built especially for the purpose. They ought to be model ships. They are needed, in time of peace, when a fleet of over 10,000 men is sent on a long cruise or when large bodies of our sailors are assembled for any purpose where we have no shore hospitals. In war, they would be the nucleus around which would center the care of all those injured on the high seas or near ports where we did not have shore hospitals. With them we could send out safely a fleet of 25,000 men, with proper provision for the care of the sick.

Mr. ROBERTS. Have you anything in mind as to the size and character of the ships?

Surgeon-General Rixey. We have the plans already prepared.
Mr. ROBERTS. What would be the cost?
Surgeon-General Rixey. About $3,000,000.

Mr. Roberts. How many sick could you accommodate on that ship?

Surgeon-General Rixey. We could crowd in 500 in an emergency, but ordinarily there would be room to comfortably provide for 350

That is all you would need on an ordinary cruise in time of peace. You would save a great deal in the way of sending sick men home to get well. In the Tropics, for instance, you could take the sick men and put them on the ship and they would be just as comfortable as on the big verandas of a hospital; you could put them in pajamas and let them lounge around, and in two or three weeks they would get their health back, instead of the expense of transferring them home or to the hospitals, and then sending out new men to take their places.

I have urged the committee for a number of years to give us these hospital ships and I hope that you will try to give us two this year.

I have asked for nothing in regard to new construction on account of being able to use the hospital fund for such work.

With your permission, Mr. Chairman, I wish to call the attention of the committee to two bills now on the calendar, both indorsed favorably by this committee, and I think also by the Senate Naval Committee. The first is the bill to reorganize and increase the efficiency of the Hospital Corps (II. R. 305), which, if passed, would enable us to carry out the plans of the bureau for a well-trained malenurse corps on our sea-going ships. The second is bill authorizing the appointment of dental surgeons in the navy (H. R. 16620), which will give our sailors and marines the same dental help as the army has had for years. I hope that these bills, approved by the committee, will receive their earnest support.

The CHAIRMAN. We are very much obliged to you.

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[No. 6.]


Wednesday, December 9, 1908.



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The CHAIRMAN. The first item is "Maintenance of yards and

. docks," which contains this new language: “Postage on letters and other mailable matter on public service sent to foreign countries, and telegrams.” What is the necessity for that?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. I would like to say, in regard to that, that it was not in the law last year, and it was not submitted by the bureau. I do not know how it got in. I understand that the appropriation under “Contingent, Supplies and Accounts” takes care of that.

Mr. PADGETT. Last year Admiral Rodgers advocated that all telegrams, postage, and things of that kind be put under one general appropriation in one bureau, and that was the policy adopted-to incorporate all that into one bureau, so that it would not be distributed over eight or ten different bureaus.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. That was done, but I do not know how this got in the estimates this year. I did not put it in.

The CHAIRMAN. I notice that you have a provision for “furniture for government houses and offices in navy-yards,” and I understand that you are going to take care of all the other bureaus?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes, sir. We pay for it out of “Maintenance." The Secretary of the Navy has directed the Paymaster-General to have it stricken out of all the other bureau estimates.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that language enough to cover naval magazines? Admiral HOLLYDAY. It covers navy-yards and naval stations, I understand.

Mr. PADGETT. Admiral Mason stated that he wanted the naval magazines left under the Bureau of Ordnance.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any reason why that should be done? Admiral HOLLYDAY. We have nothing to do with the naval magazines. Mr. ROBERTS. You have no one stationed at the naval magazines?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. No, sir. That would not be necessary in the matter of furniture because, as a matter of fact, those requisitions all come to us and are recommended for approval or disapproval. They are then passed on by my bureau to the department whose approval must be secured before the Paymaster-General makes the purchase. That is not a navy regulation but an order of the Secretary

The CHAIRMAN. How would you make this language read, “Furniture for government houses and offices in navy-yards and naval stations?


Admiral HOLLYDAY. I do not think any change would be necessary unless you wanted to include something that is not included now. That covers it.

Mr. ROBERTS. Would that cover magazines?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. No, sir; but the Bureau of Ordnance estimates for the magazines.

The CHAIRMAN. The amount estimated for this item is $1,500,000, an increase of $250,000. Why is that?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Last year we had $1,250,000. The Secretary directed that no estimate be submitted under "Civil establishment, that we were to eliminate that entirely. We paid out last year for Civil Establishment $149,625.90. That will be added to maintenance under the proposed scheme. We paid for clerical force, draftsmen, messengers, inspections, etc., $236,262.44. That will go this year under Maintenance." Our estimate for the additional furniture which we will have to furnish for all of the bureaus is $50,000 additional. On those figures that would make the estimate for maintenance $1,685,888.34, but we are willing to try to get along with $1,500,000. That would make an increase of $250,000. I think we can get along with it.

Mr. PADGETT. That is an increase in this appropriation, but a decrease in the other items which more than counterbalances it?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. There is an apparent decrease of $185,000 to be paid out of the Treasury of the United States.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you submitted in the estimates a statement this year of the clerical, inspection, drafting, messenger, and other service? You know last year you submitted such a statement for your bureau?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. For the Civil Establishment?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

Admiral HOLLYDAY. No; we did not. The department directed the bureau not to submit any at all. There is nothing in the estimates. Civil Establishment does not appear.

Mr. ROBERTS. Have you submitted anything showing what you will require for clerical assistance, what would come under Civil Establishment?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Nothing beyond what I have just stated. The $250,000 is to pay for those services taken on under "Maintenance," comprising those three items.

The Chairman. Out of what fund did you pay the $236,000?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Out of the appropriations for the work on which the people are working. For instance, if you appropriate $200,000 for a building, the draftsmen and inspectors are paid out of that fund. Now, they would not be paid out of that fund. All of that fund would go toward the building, and the clerical assistance, inspection, etc., would be paid out of maintenance.

Mr. ROBERTS. In other words, when we appropriate $200,000 for a building, if this should become law, the $200,000 will go into the building and not $5,000 or $10,000 or $15,000 go into clerical services, draftsmen, etc.?

Admiral HOLLYDAY. Yes, sir. Under this wording we could not charge anything for that service against the appropriation for the building.

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