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is $1,740,000, I subtracted the cost of the $450 increase, which amounts to $1,600,000.

Senator Cain. The increments in themselves appear to be worth about $3,340,400; is that the way you read those figures?

Dr. CORNING. The increments and other adjustments will amount to $1,740,400 over the cost of the $450 increase granted in 1946 47 for that year only.

Senator Cain. But your total cost for 1948 over 1947 is $1,108,000! Dr. CORNING. That is 1947-48 only.

Senator Cain. Over the life of your projection it is an additional $1,740,400

Dr. CORNING. No, sir.

Senator Cain. That, from your considered point of view, is as high as these figures could go!

Dr. CORNING. I would like to comment on that if I may.

Senator Cain. They might be considerably less than that because your assumption is that people will all remain where they are, which obviously is incorrect.

Dr. CORNING. Those figures are higher than they could ever be. The only thing we could do was to base our estimates upon the assumption that everybody now employed will go through this entire schedule up to the maximum, which never will happen.

In the footnote which I have supplied at the end of page 2—it really belongs on page 3—shows that for the past several years, the past 5 years, for example, we have never had in excess of 64.7 percent of our people on maximum salary.

It is perfectly reasonable to take that as a reasoning basis for reason. ing that these figures are high by at least

Senator Cain. Thirty-five percent?
Dr. CORNING. Right.

Therefore, there is in that whole thing, according to all past praetices, a saving of $600,000, but we have shown you the ultimate if everybody stays on.

Senator Cain. Your percentage ought to go up.

Mr. BATES. Will that same ratio not continue in the future that you have at the present time? You say it is 65 percent.

They are going up and going out, but others are coming in and going up. Would that same ratio not continue?

Dr. CORNING. I do not know whether the same would or not, but the general principle would obtain, that we would never have the situation of all of the people arriving at maximum. Life does not treat us that way.

Senator Cain. You could guess and say it would vary from 30 to 40 percent.

Mr. BATEs. But it will not vary from present conditions. In other words, you are going to have that same ratio continue on. Others are going up to maximum and out, and others are coming in, and they are going up step by step.

Dr. CORNING. This is figuring that everybody is going to get to that maximum, whereas our figures show that that has never happened and certainly will never happen.

Mr. Bates. While that is true, not getting up to the maximum, yet on the others, they are going up all the time and filling that so far as they can see.

Dr. CORNING. Every time one goes out, if that person be at maximum, and if an entering person be at minimum, there is another stretch of years ahead before that person can get to maximum.

Mr. Bates. One is offsetting the other. It is a revolving process all the time, is it not

Dr. CORNING. I do not think I made my point quite clear to you, sir. I grant that that is true. There will always be a stepping up on the increment basis, but these estimated costs include all of the increments for every individual until he reaches the maximum salary.

I have reduced the estimated costs by saying that never have more than 64.7 percent of the teachers reached their maximum. Therefore, I contend the estimates are high on that assumption itself.

There will always be some teachers moving toward maximum. Many of them will drop out through retirement, death, illness, other employment, so that, generally speaking, about 35 percent of the teachers will always be below maximum.

Mr. BATES. Your figures are not computed on the basis of maximum four-thousand-odd school teachers in the District ?

Dr. CORNING. Yes, sir; every one of these estimates is based on that assumption.

Mr. BATEs. That will span a period of 10 years?
Dr. CORNING. Sixteen.
Mr. BATES. Sixteen increments?

Dr. CORNING. A person entering next year as a new teacher, if he enters without placement—that is, for previous experience

Senator Cain. It will take 16 years for everybody to get at the maximum. Some are at the maximum now. They have no place to go except to stay where they are.

Mr. BATES. The only reason I asked the question was because the maximum is 12 increments, and that is 12 years.

Mrs. DOYLE. They can go up four more.
Mr. Bates. Under C and D, you mean?
Mrs. DOYLE. Yes.

Mr. Bates. Does this schedule here include the difference between Band D, this total of $3,191,000?

Dr. CORNING. The cost of promotions to B and D is not listed in the table.

We have very carefully estimated it, however. I call your attention, if I' may, to the footnote on page 3.

At the present time, approximately 10 percent of the total number of teachers are in B and D groups already. They will automatically move into the new levels for those classes.

The total cost of promotion to B or D is $500 ultimately at the rate of $100 a year for 5 years.

Under the policy of liberalizing admission to groups B and D, it is estimated that the ultimate additional annual cost will be something over $500,000.

The cost is problematical. We are estimating the cost liberally. This estimate does not add a half million dollars to the total cost, because the footnote on page 2 I shows that about 35 percent of the teachers do not reach maximum, thus reducing the estimates by over $600,000 in that category.

Senator Cain. Yes, we see.

· Mr. Bates. It has been stated that this bill will add about $4,000,000 to the school expenditures.

Mr. FOWLER. We made that statement, Mr. Bates, on the figures that we then had.

If you add half a million to the $3,340,000, you have $3,840,000, but you can see the difficulty because of the ramifications of this bill.

It is a very difficult thing to analyze. A lot of this information is peculiarly within the knowledge of the Board of Education that we did not have available at the time.

Yesterday, after consulting for two days since we had our la-t meeting, we are not out of agreement with the school authorities that this is about as near as we will come to the estimate of the cost.

Senator Cain. At a later stage you or the Commissioners will reflect officially and verify these figures?

Mr. FOWLER. Definitely.
Senator Cain. Certainly there is plenty of time for that.

Mr. BATES. Do you want to leave with this thought, the ultimate increased cost over and above the 1947 project will be $1,740,000 ?

Dr. CORNING. No.

The $450 is not included in that. You see, there is no legislation to continue the $450 increase costing $1,600,000.

Mr. Bates. But ycur total estimated total cost of $3,340,000, less the total temporary increase for 1947 only, which is part of that cost, brings it down to $1,740,000, so the ultimate excess cost over 1947 will be one million seven.

Mr. FOWLER. That is the way we view it.

Senator Cain. Your legal increase is $3,340,000. Your actual increase, assuming that the $450 is to be continued, is the million seven.

Mr. BATES. What we are actually talking about is the million seven.

Mr. WILLIAM WILDING (deputy budget officer). Except one thing, Mr. Bates: In the 1948 budget on which we have estimated for 1948, There has been taken into consideration every available source of revenue, including prospective revenues from the bills pending before this committee.

That 1948 budget does not include provision for continuing in 1948 the $150 increase inasmuch as the precise terms of that law stated Ilrat it was for only 1 year ending June 30, 1947, just as a technical matter.

Senator Cain. As far as the next budget is concerned, 1948, we are actually talking about an increase in a legislative in the legal sense of $3,310,000 projected over a period !

Mr. WiLDING. That is correct.
Mr. Bates. Let me clear that point up again.

We have a budget of about $95,000,000 this year. In that budget, are there provisions for that $450 ?

Mr. FOWLER. No, sir.
Mr. BATES. What will the $150 amount to?
Dr. CORNING. $1,600,000.

Mr. BATEs. Instead of a budget of $95,000,000, it ought to be $96,600,000; including the $150, vou are $1,600,000 short in the budget that you have est imated to Congress this year. Are they familiar with that?

Mr. WILDING. $95,000,000 is the amount of the 1948 budget transmitted to Congress, yes, sir, but it does not include provision for con. tinuing the $150 increase in teachers salaries, which was placed in effect only for the fiscal year 1947.

We recognize, of course, the likelihood of that being at least continued in that amount. It is more than a likelihood, it is a certainty.

Mr. Bates. Did I see any footnote in reference to that shortage of $1,600,000 to meet the requirements of that $450 increase?

Senator Cain. It was never mentioned in your budget.

Mr. FOWLER. In all of our tables before you we have testified about it and put in all the information we have furnished you with reference to our figures, that was not provided for, and called attention that our legislative program did not provide for the additions that would be required if this legislation was passed.

Mr. Bates. I think that perhaps there may have been some misunderstanding that this legislation only had to do with excess costs over and above the $450. That is the way I interpret it.

Now, then, in your balance sheets that you gave to me you showed a deficiency of $13,000,000. Does that $13,000,000 include $450 or is the $13,000,000 deficit plus the $1,600,000 to take care of $450, and then such additional revenue as we may need to meet the requirements of this bill?

Mr. WILDING. The $13,000,000 was the amount estimated to be derived from the tax legislation as presented to the committee.

Senator Cain. To balance your budget, which did not include the $1,600,000 ?

Mr. WILDING. That is correct.

Mr. BATES. Or the deficiency, if this bill becomes law, will be the $13,000,000, plus $1,600,000 for the $450, plus whatever additional expenses would be involved here of one-million-some-odd thousand, so it is not a $13,000,000 deficit that we are actually facing in the budget figures; we are facing at least 1442 million dollars or something of that kind; is that right?

Mr. WiLDING. Yes, sir, except you referred to $13,000,000. That is $13.498,000, as I started to say, was the estimated revenue derived from this tax legislation.

The amount of the deficit as shown in the record here was $17,000,000. Mr. Bates. $17,000,000 in the next fiscal year, the 1948 budget?

Mr. WILDING. 1948. I assumed you were talking about the 1948 budget.

Mr. BATEs. $13,000,000 deficit is estimated in the 1948 budget; you will actually have a deficiency of $17,000,000 in 1918?

Mr. WILDING. Yes. $17,000,000 is the deficit, $13,000,000 was the amount to be derived from pending legislation.

Dr. CORNING. I would like to comment on that budgetary inclusion or the lack of it, if I may

We did not, in presenting our 1948 estimates to the Commissioners, include the provision for the $450 increase, because I understand we cannot include items in the budget for which we have no authorizing legislation. We had no such authorizing legislation, although we were mandated by Congress to make this study and present our plan to you, the cost of which is over and above the budget estimates for 1948 which we submitted.

But we believed, and I think we are correct in that, that we have no right to include the provisions for the $450 increase in the budget until such time as there is some authorization.

Mr. BATES. You made that clear to the Commission when you submitted the budget to them.

Dr. CORNING. We all understood that; yes, sir.
Senator Cain. All right, sir; let us proceed.
Dr. CORNING. I think that is my case.

Senator Cain. Mrs. Doyle, we would be delighted to have anything further from you.

STATEMENT OF MRS. HENRY GRATTAN DOYLE, PRESIDENT, BOARD

OF EDUCATION, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, WASHINGTON, D. C.Resumed

Mrs. DoYLE. Mr. Bates said he did want that matter of the 78 percent increase in the case of the elementary teachers cleared up.

I would like to give a few facts on that from the thinking of the Board of Education.

I think you said earlier that either the base was wrong or what we are asking now is out of line.

Those are the two points that you wanted cleared up.

You did say that we increased from 1944, which was then $1,400, to $1,900, and now we are asking $2,500.

But I would like to remind you that the legislation which authorized the $1,400 was almost 20 years old when we went ahead with it, and I think the date of that bill was about 1924.

The base was $1,400 in 1923 and 1924, and that existed until 1914. I think that if anything could be said at this time, it would be said that the Board of Education was remiss in not pushing earlier to correct the entering salary of $1,400.

Senator Cain. Did the Board say at any time during the 10-year period, going back to 1937, during the war period, did it submit any bill for increased salaries?

Mrs. DOYLE. We did not. We worked on that bill which ultimately went into effect in 1945. So we started along about then to get this increase.

The answer to the low salary of $1,400 was that it simply was wrong at that time.

Mr. BATES. I guess we can all agree to that.

Mrs. Doyle. Now to analyze the beginning salary of $2,500 which is requested now. I think I mentioned the other day that a comparison with those who are our competitors, which is the Federal Government, shows that the $2,500 is almost equal to a professional rank in the Federal Government and is about correct.

The qualifications and experience for professional rank is about the same at the $2,500 level.

The whole philosophy of the Board of Education, as I said, is to get the best teachers for the children and hold them. We have to be very practical and get teachers as we can get them and meet the competition that we have. So we thought about that as a practical issue.

This rise in salary, which is 16 increments, also is a result of the philosophy of the Board of Education that I mentioned the other day

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