Dr. CORNING. Every time one goes out, if that person be at maximum, and if an entering person be at minimum, there is another stretch of years ahead before that person can get to maximum.

Mr. BATES. One is offsetting the other. It is a revolving process all the time, is it not

Dr. CORNING. I do not think I made my point quite clear to you, sir. I grant that that is true. There will always be a stepping up on the increment basis, but these estimated costs include all of the increments for every individual until he reaches the maximum salary.

I have reduced the estimated costs by saying that never have more than 64.7 percent of the teachers reached their maximum. Therefore, I contend the estimates are high on that assumption itself.

There will always be some teachers moving toward maximum. Many of them will drop out through retirement, death, illness, other employment, so that, generally speaking, about 35 percent of the teachers will always be below maximum.

Mr. BATES. Your figures are not computed on the basis of maximum four-thousand-odd school teachers in the District?

Dr. CORNING. Yes, sir; every one of these estimates is based on that assumption.

Mr. BATES. That will span a period of 10 years?

Dr. CORNING. Sixteen.

Mr. BATES. Sixteen increments?

Dr. CORNING. A person entering next year as a new teacher, if he enters without placement-that is, for previous experience

Senator CAIN. It will take 16 years for everybody to get at the maximum. Some are at the maximum now. They have no place to go except to stay where they are.

Mr. BATES. The only reason I asked the question was because the maximum is 12 increments, and that is 12 years.

Mrs. DOYLE. They can go up four more.

Mr. BATES. Under C and D, you mean?

Mrs. DOYLE. Yes.

Mr. BATES. Does this schedule here include the difference between Band D, this total of $3,191,000?

Dr. CORNING. The cost of promotions to B and D is not listed in the table.

We have very carefully estimated it, however. I call your attention, if I may, to the footnote on page 3.

At the present time, approximately 10 percent of the total number of teachers are in B and D groups already. They will automatically move into the new levels for those classes.

The total cost of promotion to B or D is $500 ultimately at the rate of $100 a year for 5 years.

Under the policy of liberalizing admission to groups B and D, it is estimated that the ultimate additional annual cost will be something over $500,000.

The cost is problematical. We are estimating the cost liberally. This estimate does not add a half million dollars to the total cost, because the footnote on page 2 I shows that about 35 percent of the teachers do not reach maximum, thus reducing the estimates by over $600,000 in that category.

Senator CAIN. Yes, we see.

is $1,740,000, I subtracted the cost of the $450 increase, which amounts to $1,600,000.

Senator CAIN. The increments in themselves appear to be worth about $3,340,400; is that the way you read those figures?

Dr. CORNING. The increments and other adjustments will amount to $1,740,400 over the cost of the $450 increase granted in 1946-47 for that year only.

Senator CAIN. But your total cost for 1948 over 1947 is $1,108,000! Dr. CORNING. That is 1947-48 only.

Senator CAIN. Over the life of your projection it is an additional $1,740,400?

Dr. CORNING. No, sir.

Senator CAIN. That, from your considered point of view, is as high as these figures could go?

Dr. CORNING. I would like to comment on that if I may.

Senator CAIN. They might be considerably less than that because your assumption is that people will all remain where they are, which obviously is incorrect.

Dr. CORNING. Those figures are higher than they could ever be. The only thing we could do was to base our estimates upon the assumption that everybody now employed will go through this entire schedule up to the maximum, which never will happen.

In the footnote which I have supplied at the end of page 2-it really belongs on page 3-shows that for the past several years, the past 5 years, for example, we have never had in excess of 64.7 percent of our people on maximum salary.

It is perfectly reasonable to take that as a reasoning basis for reasoning that these figures are high by at least

Senator CAIN. Thirty-five percent?

Dr. CORNING. Right.

Therefore, there is in that whole thing, according to all past practices, a saving of $600,000, but we have shown you the ultimate if everybody stays on.

Senator CAIN. Your percentage ought to go up.

Mr. BATES. Will that same ratio not continue in the future that you have at the present time? You say it is 65 percent.

They are going up and going out, but others are coming in and going up. Would that same ratio not continue?

Dr. CORNING. I do not know whether the same would or not, but the general principle would obtain, that we would never have the situa tion of all of the people arriving at maximum. Life does not treat us that way.

Senator CAIN. You could guess and say it would vary from 30 to 40 percent.

Mr. BATES. But it will not vary from present conditions. In other words, you are going to have that same ratio continue on. Others are going up to maximum and out, and others are coming in, and they are going up step by step.

Dr. CORNING. This is figuring that everybody is going to get to that maximum, whereas our figures show that that has never happened and certainly will never happen.

Mr. BATES. While that is true, not getting up to the maximum, yet on the others, they are going up all the time and filling that so far as they can see.

Dr. CORNING. Every time one goes out, if that person be at maximum, and if an entering person be at minimum, there is another stretch of years ahead before that person can get to maximum.

Mr. BATES. One is offsetting the other. It is a revolving process all the time, is it not

Dr. CORNING. I do not think I made my point quite clear to you, sir. I grant that that is true. There will always be a stepping up on the increment basis, but these estimated costs include all of the increments for every individual until he reaches the maximum salary.

I have reduced the estimated costs by saying that never have more than 64.7 percent of the teachers reached their maximum. Therefore, I contend the estimates are high on that assumption itself.

There will always be some teachers moving toward maximum. Many of them will drop out through retirement, death, illness, other employment, so that, generally speaking, about 35 percent of the teachers will always be below maximum.

Mr. BATES. Your figures are not computed on the basis of maximum four-thousand-odd school teachers in the District?

Dr. CORNING. Yes, sir; every one of these estimates is based on that assumption.

Mr. BATES. That will span a period of 10 years?

Dr. CORNING. Sixteen.

Mr. BATES, Sixteen increments?

Dr. CORNING. A person entering next year as a new teacher, if he enters without placement-that is, for previous experience

Senator CAIN. It will take 16 years for everybody to get at the maximum. Some are at the maximum now. They have no place to go except to stay where they are.

Mr. BATES. The only reason I asked the question was because the maximum is 12 increments, and that is 12 years.

Mrs. DOYLE. They can go up four more.

Mr. BATES. Under C and D, you mean?

Mrs. DOYLE. Yes.

Mr. BATES. Does this schedule here include the difference between Band D, this total of $3,191,000?

Dr. CORNING. The cost of promotions to B and D is not listed in the table.

We have very carefully estimated it, however. I call your attention, if I may, to the footnote on page 3.

At the present time, approximately 10 percent of the total number of teachers are in B and D groups already. They will automatically

move into the new levels for those classes.

The total cost of promotion to B or D is $500 ultimately at the rate of $100 a year for 5 years.

Under the policy of liberalizing admission to groups B and D, it is estimated that the ultimate additional annual cost will be something over $500,000.

The cost is problematical. We are estimating the cost liberally. This estimate does not add a half million dollars to the total cost, because the footnote on page 2 I shows that about 35 percent of the teachers do not reach maximum, thus reducing the estimates by over $600,000 in that category.

Senator CAIN. Yes, we see.

is $1,740,000, I subtracted the cost of the $450 increase, which amounts

to $1,600,000.

Senator CAIN. The increments in themselves appear to be worth about $3,340,400; is that the way you read those figures?

Dr. CORNING. The increments and other adjustments will amount to $1,740,400 over the cost of the $450 increase granted in 1946-47 for that year only.

Senator CAIN. But your total cost for 1948 over 1947 is $1,108,000! Dr. CORNING. That is 1947-48 only.

Senator CAIN. Over the life of your projection it is an additional $1,740,400?

Dr. CORNING. No, sir.

Senator CAIN. That, from your considered point of view, is as high as these figures could go?

Dr. CORNING. I would like to comment on that if I may.

Senator CAIN. They might be considerably less than that because your assumption is that people will all remain where they are, which obviously is incorrect.

Dr. CORNING. Those figures are higher than they could ever be. The only thing we could do was to base our estimates upon the assumption that everybody now employed will go through this entire schedule up to the maximum, which never will happen.

In the footnote which I have supplied at the end of page 2-it really belongs on page 3-shows that for the past several years, the past 5 years, for example, we have never had in excess of 64.7 percent of our people on maximum salary.

It is perfectly reasonable to take that as a reasoning basis for reason i ing that these figures are high by at least

Senator CAIN. Thirty-five percent?

Dr. CORNING. Right.

Therefore, there is in that whole thing, according to all past prac tices, a saving of $600,000, but we have shown you the ultimate if everybody stays on.

Senator CAIN. Your percentage ought to go up.

Mr. BATES. Will that same ratio not continue in the future that you have at the present time? You say it is 65 percent.

They are going up and going out, but others are coming in and going up. Would that same ratio not continue?

Dr. CORNING. I do not know whether the same would or not, but the general principle would obtain, that we would never have the situa¦ tion of all of the people arriving at maximum. Life does not treat us that way.

Senator CAIN. You could guess and say it would vary from 30 to 40 percent.

Mr. BATES. But it will not vary from present conditions. In other words, you are going to have that same ratio continue on. Others are going up to maximum and out, and others are coming in, and they are going up step by step.

Dr. CORNING. This is figuring that everybody is going to get to that maximum, whereas our figures show that that has never happened and certainly will never happen.

Mr. BATES. While that is true, not getting up to the maximum, yet on the others, they are going up all the time and filling that so far as they can see.

Dr. CORNING. Every time one goes out, if that person be at maximum, and if an entering person be at minimum, there is another stretch of years ahead before that person can get to maximum.

Mr. BATES. One is offsetting the other. It is a revolving process all the time, is it not

Dr. CORNING. I do not think I made my point quite clear to you, sir. I grant that that is true. There will always be a stepping up on the increment basis, but these estimated costs include all of the increments for every individual until he reaches the maximum salary.

I have reduced the estimated costs by saying that never have more than 64.7 percent of the teachers reached their maximum. Therefore, I contend the estimates are high on that assumption itself.

There will always be some teachers moving toward maximum. Many of them will drop out through retirement, death, illness, other employment, so that, generally speaking, about 35 percent of the teachers will always be below maximum.

Mr. BATES. Your figures are not computed on the basis of maximum four-thousand-odd school teachers in the District?

Dr. CORNING. Yes, sir; every one of these estimates is based on that assumption.

Mr. BATES. That will span a period of 10 years?

Dr. CORNING. Sixteen.

Mr. BATES. Sixteen increments?

Dr. CORNING. A person entering next year as a new teacher, if he enters without placement-that is, for previous experience

Senator CAIN. It will take 16 years for everybody to get at the maximum. Some are at the maximum now. They have no place to go except to stay where they are.

Mr. BATES. The only reason I asked the question was because the maximum is 12 increments, and that is 12 years.

Mrs. DOYLE. They can go up four more.

Mr. BATES. Under C and D, you mean?

Mrs. DOYLE. Yes.

Mr. BATES. Does this schedule here include the difference between Band D, this total of $3,191,000?

Dr. CORNING. The cost of promotions to B and D is not listed in the table.

We have very carefully estimated it, however. I call your attention, if I may, to the footnote on page 3.

At the present time, approximately 10 percent of the total number of teachers are in B and D groups already. They will automatically

move into the new levels for those classes.

The total cost of promotion to B or D is $500 ultimately at the rate of $100 a year for 5 years.

Under the policy of liberalizing admission to groups B and D, it is estimated that the ultimate additional annual cost will be something over $500,000.

The cost is problematical. We are estimating the cost liberally. This estimate does not add a half million dollars to the total cost, because the footnote on page 2 I shows that about 35 percent of the teachers do not reach maximum, thus reducing the estimates by over $600,000 in that category.

Senator CAIN. Yes, we see.