Hearings

single out those improvements that, in the opinion of the representatives who are here this morning, could be delayed.

I am somewhat impressed by the testimony-Captain Whitehurst even gave it himself-that the relative costs of construction today are so far ahead, so much greater than what they were, say, 3, 4, 5 years ago, that there is a very serious thought in my mind as to whether or not we should embark upon a major program in any governmental entity, whether it is the District of Columbia or the Federal Government, until we can see where the costs come more in balance with the normal costs.

I recall only about 2 weeks ago, I had a similar condition in a highway development in my own district where the estimated cost in 1941 was around $350,000, and the actual bids on the same project last December were a million two hundred thousand dollars. Now, something has gone haywire in between there somewhere.

I am sorry yesterday I did not take the opportunity to examine the contractor, the cement contractor, concrete contractor while he was here, as to why the costs of construction have doubled and tripled over that period of time, when labor has not doubled in that period of time; and I questioned very much if material has doubled in that period of time.

Do you happen to know, Mr. Harrison, let us say, 5 years ago what cement cost at that time and what it costs today?

Mr. S. R. HARRISON (Deputy Engineer of Streets, District of Columbia). Concrete bid on the last large project we had was $8.50 a cubic yard.

Mr. BATES. Mr. Harrison is with Captain Whitehurst in the Highway Department.

You say $8.50 a cubic yard? Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir. more than 4 or 5 years ago.

I would say that is two or three dollars

Mr. BATES. Two or three dollars.

Mr. HARRISON. Yes; it used to go to five or five-fifty.

Mr. BATES. If that is so, say on concrete, that is for mixed concrete, that you are speaking about now?

Mr. HARRISON. That is for delivered.

Mr. BATES. On the job, delivered on the job; that only shows an increase of 65 percent.

Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir; that is normal.

Mr. BATES. Yet, bids on highway jobs, as a whole, have gone up a hundred percent-150 percent.

Mr. HARRISON. That is due to other factors, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. BATES. Have you had an opportunity to analyze those?

Mr. HARRISON. A great deal depends on how the concrete is to be used. Carpentry work has increased.

Mr. BATES. What is that?

Mr. HARRISON. Carpenters' wages have increased; there is a great deal of form work; the cost of that is thrown into the cost of concrete per cubic yard because it must be formed to use the concrete, and that is the reason for the statement you hear of $40 and $45 concrete. It is not the price of the concrete; it is the cost of the excavation, forming, reinforcing, and everything that goes into the use of the concrete. Mr. BATES. Yes, even with that-that is what we call general con

struction work. I have done a lot of that myself, and I am somewhat familiar with it. I still question the increased cost, 100 percent, 150 percent; in this case that I mentioned in my own district, 200 percent, in a period of 5 years. There is just something haywire in between there somewhere. For the most part, the equipment they are using is the equipment they owned 5 years, 6, 7 years ago because they just have not done any work during the interim, unless they have done it for the Government, and that increased cost cannot be attributed to increased cost of labor, because labor, I do not think, has doubled during that period of time.

Mr. HARRISON. No, sir; and our prices have not gone up 200 percent you mentioned. Our paving costs have increased; we are up in the neighborhood of 50 or 60 percent.

Mr. BATES. Now, let us take the Dupont Circle job as just an illustration, because it was mentioned here this morning. It was mentioned at some other point in the hearings.

Your first estimate had costs of the Dupont Circle job as beingwhen was that made, and what was the estimated cost?

Mr. HARRISON. Mr. Chairman, I would rather compare another project for this reason, that the Dupont Circle project, the plans were never static; the plans were changed.

Mr. BATES. So you have no relative comparison or condition there. Mr. HARRISON. On the K Street elevated structure, the estimate on that project, the prewar estimate, was a trifle over $2,000,000-2 million, as I recall, and one or two hundred thousand dollars.

We have just received bids on it, and the low bid was $3,400,000. Mr. BATES. Three million four?

Mr. HARRISON. Which does not reflect a hundred or two hundred percent at all-that much of an increase at all.

Mr. BATES. Well now, from the studies, Mr. Harrison, that your department has made, say, of future costs, a year from now, 2 years from now, whatever basis that was available for that study, have you come to any conclusion as to whether or not prices, say, a year from now or 2 years from now will be substantially less than what they are today?

Mr. HARRISON. Mr. Chairman, as other people, we hope they will, but we see no reason why they will be lower.

Mr. BATES. The reason I mention that again today, which I mentioned yesterday, is because the United States News-and they have some pretty reliable reporting in that paper, that magazine-estimated that the cost of housing, which is practically all framework but embraces carpentry, of course, and plumbing and heating and all the accessories, a year and a half from now or a year from now may be 30 percent less than what it is today.

Mr. HARRISON. There is probably a good reason for that in that lumber has increased more than any other commodity. Lumber has increased I think-the latest figures are-182 percent.

Mr. BATES. 182 percent.

Mr. HARRISON. Yes; and that can come down, the price can come down, which would materially affect housing.

Mr. BATES. Of course, where you are doing a lot of concrete work and a lot of framework, that is going to affect your concrete work materially.

single out those improvements that, in the opinion of the representatives who are here this morning. could be delayed.

I am somewhat impressed by the testimony-Captain Whitehurst even gave it himself that the relative costs of construction today are so far ahead, so much greater than what they were, say, 3, 4, 5 years ago, that there is a very serious thought in my mind as to whether or not we should embark upon a major program in any governmental entity, whether it is the District of Columbia or the Federal Government, until we can see where the costs come more in balance with the normal costs.

I recall only about 2 weeks ago, I had a similar condition in a highway development in my own district where the estimated cost in 1941 was around $350,000, and the actual bids on the same project last December were a million two hundred thousand dollars. Now, something has gone haywire in between there somewhere.

I am sorry yesterday I did not take the opportunity to examine the contractor, the cement contractor, concrete contractor while he was here, as to why the costs of construction have doubled and tripled over that period of time, when labor has not doubled in that period of time; and I questioned very much if material has doubled in that period of time.

Do you happen to know, Mr. Harrison, let us say, 5 years ago what cement cost at that time and what it costs today?

Mr. S. R. HARRISON (Deputy Engineer of Streets, District of Columbia). Concrete bid on the last large project we had was $8.50 a cubic yard.

Mr. BATES. Mr. Harrison is with Captain Whitehurst in the Highway Department.

You say $8.50 a cubic yard?

Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir. I would say that is two or three dollars more than 4 or 5 years ago.