Miss HERBERT. Yes; I think I will have to talk to it, if I may. Senator CAIN. Well, Mr. Jackson and I would like to have these figures before us as we listen to your presentation.

Miss HERBERT. May I call your attention to the organic act, which created the library in 1896, and was amended in 1926. Under that act the library was established as a supplement of the public educational system of the District of Columbia. The whole consideration of the service should be predicated upon the fact that the library is an educational institution. Primarily we help the children in the schools and the young people; also, we are the main public agency for postclassroom instruction. That was very forward-looking legislation because at that time libraries were looked at quite generally as distribution points of good literature, which would satisfy people's reading interests; they were not looked at primarily as educational institutions. Now what we are trying to do under that mandate of Congress is to study the individual needs of the community so that we can fit our service accordingly. Of course, one of our functions is to supply good books, but that is only one. The library must be so organized that it can bring print in all its forms to bear upon the needs of the people of the District so that they may be helped to live more complete and adequate lives culturally, vocationally, and technically. We have excellent collections on business, industrial, and technical subjects; on national and international problems; and on the very important subject of everyday living.

We operate through a central library and 13 neighborhood branches, and then we have an extension service which sends collections of books to schools, colleges, hospitals, camps, orphanages, penal institutions, and other agencies.

Senator CAIN.. You have a total of 14 physical units, the main library and 13 branches?

Miss HERBERT. Yes; we have a central library and 13 branches, and we also have 1 floor and the storage attic floor of our new main library building at 499 Pennsylvania Avenue. The remainder of the building is occupied by a State Department agency.

Now, during this period of 1937 to 1947, our personal services increased from $352,020 to $756,290, an increase of 114 percent. Part of that was

Senator CAIN. We carry a figure here of $656,000 in the year 1947. Miss HERBERT. Yes, but an additional $99,512 must be added for the 1947 pay act by a deficiency appropriation, making the total for services for 1947, $756,290.

Senator CAIN. I beg your pardon, just in order that I may be correct as to your figures, the 1947 personal service total ought to be corrected to $756,000 as opposed to $656,000, and I daresay most of the difference in allocation between 1946 and 1947 is accounted for by the public law pay bill.

Miss HERBERT. Yes, sir, but the cost of the pay bill is carried in a supplemental appropriation and is recorded as such in this table rather than in the regular appropriation.

Senator CAIN. Yes.

Miss HERBERT. Total operating expenses increased 102 percent. Capital outlay for the 10-year period totaled $1,563,000.

The Organic Act-referring to that again-said that the library shall consist of a central library and such number of branch libraries

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so located and so supported as to furnish books and other printed matter and informational service convenient to the homes and offices of all residents of the District.

During this 10-year period we have established two large branches, and one small branch in a rented store building in the Anacostia area. There also have been capital improvements in the way of buying of sites.

Senator CAIN. For future building development.

Miss HERBERT. For future building development, yes. Appropriations were granted for seven additional branch sites, $155,000; for plans and specifications for six buildings, $50,000; and the first unit of the new main library was authorized at a total cost of $1,178,000, including the plans and specifications.

On this map the red stars indicate our present agencies, and the blue stars the sites now owned where we shall be able, as soon as we have the money for construction, to erect new branches.

I might say, Senator, that we are the lowest of all the large cities in the number of branches. But that is not altogether an unmixed blessing. When other cities were building their branch systems, they had the benefit of the grants from Mr. Carnegie. We were not allowed to take advantage of those grants, although we do have four buildings, the present central library and three branches, which were built either under grant from Mr. Carnegie or the Carnegie Corp.; the rest of them have been built with public funds. Our philosophy is that we would rather have fewer and larger branches where we can give a better reference and advisory service than to have a great many little distribution points, which situation is plaguing a good many libraries in other cities. You may be interested to know that Baltimore which has 28 branches against our 13, I believe is now seeking $3,000,000 from the State legislature to reorganize their branch system.

Since these original grants of the Carnegie Corp. or of Mr. Carnegie, the automobile has come in. Originally libraries were placed close together so that children could get to them easily.

Senator CAIN. Do you feel it is a national trend?

Miss HERBERT. Yes.

Senator CAIN. To work toward the centralization of library units rather than in a sense a decentralization?

Miss HERBERT. Yes. You see, in those days they were considered so much more a place of distribution. The number of persons who had any private transportation was very limited. Libraries are expected to serve all classes of persons.

Senator CAIN. If they were generally acceptable, I would like to know, the library programs as currently pursued by you and your

associates.

Miss HERBERT. Yes; and that is the principle behind our program. However, with the growth of Washington, we are getting more and more pressure from citizens' associations and parent-teacher associations.

Senator CAIN. To develop neighborhood small-library units. Miss HERBERT. Yes. For instance, take Anacostia. We have at the present time a small rented building across the river. It is all of this area up here which is very heavily built up now. If you had a

chance to go over there you would be surprised to see the concentration of buildings in that area, and there are going to be long distances for the people to go even when we get our Anacostia branch built for which we already have the plans. So that beside that-I do not know how much you want to go into this, and I do not want to take your time unnecessarily, but there are certain elements in placement of branches; it is not only the population, but it is also the separation by transportation channels and natural barriers which come into the picture. In other words, people will not cross such barriers. You take Wisconsin Avenue and Connecticut Avenue. People living west of Wisconsin will not come to Connecticut Avenue; and people living on the east side of Connecticut will not go to Wisconsin, so that those factors come in as well.

But as far as we can work it out, we have tried to think in terms of branches large enough to give a really good educational service, predicated on the idea that it is possible for people to go a little longer distance now.

Senator CAIN. How far into the future have you projected your building program, if you had your own dreams come true?

Miss HERBERT. We have a postwar program which was adopted by the Board of Library Trustees, that covered the whole situation in the District, and looked toward 32 branches ultimately.

Senator CAIN. Your Board of Trustees consists, I presume, of lay persons from within the community?

Miss HERBERT. Yes.

Senator CAIN. By what means are they selected?

Miss HERBERT. They are appointed by the Commissioners. There are nine members under the law.

Senator CAIN. Both men and women?

Miss HERBERT. Both men and women.

Senator CAIN. Serving terms of what length?

Miss HERBERT. Six years on a rotating plan. In the meantime, General Young's 6-year program has been developed into which our program is being fitted, and that will take care of immediate needs. The major problem that we have to face now is to get possession of the entire new main building on Pennsylvania Avenue, so that we may open up a public service there.

Senator CAIN. I do not think I quite follow; you desire to get possession?

Mis HERBERT. Yes. The building was under construction when the war began, and it was completed on the understanding that it could be occupied by the Federal Government during the war period.

Three floors are still being rented by the Office of Inter-American Affairs of the State Department.

Senator CAIN. The rest of the department is being used for your purposes?

Miss HERBERT. Yes, but not for public service as yet. Only for administration, and our processing departments-acquisitions, cataloging and binding.

Senator CAIN. But you would like to acquire in its entirety its service facility?

Miss HERBERT. Yes; and then get the second unit built. It is being built in four units, and the second unit is included in General Young's plan. We can open up some of our public services as soon

as we get possession of the whole first unit and have the money for its operation.

Senator CAIN. Would you reflect a little, please, on your increase in personnel, beginning roughly with your base figure of 1937.

Miss HERBERT. Yes, sir. From 1937 to 1947, an increase of 63 positions. It is a little difficult to give you exact figures because we have a good deal of part-time employment, but based on full-time employment

Senator CAIN. Sixty more employees than you had some 10 years

ago.

Miss HERBERT. Than we had some 10 years ago. Part of this increase is represented by reason of the fact that we are operating two new large branches and one new small branch.

Senator CAIN. That you did not have in 1937.

Miss HERBERT. That we did not have at that time. We have added new services and longer hours at certain agencies, and a higher grade reference and advisory service is demanded as people realize more and more what the library means to them in their personal lives and in their group activities.

Senator CAIN. Your library workers, your librarians, do not give out books, they give out service.

Miss HERBERT. Yes.

Senator CAIN. You are asking for $241,000 more in 1948 than 1947 for personal services. Does that reflect the addition of new positions? Miss HERBERT. Yes. It reflects the following: (a) 34 positions for restoration of positions cut from 1945 and 1946 acts because of inability to fill vacancies as of a given date and losses caused by operation of the 40-hour work week; (b) 16 custodial and engineering positions for maintenance of new main building; (c) 30 part-time temporary positions to acquire, prepare, and catalog the book stock for public service in new main library building.

Senator CAIN. You are operating on a 40-hour week?

Miss HERBERT. We are operating on a 40-hour week. We have three members of the custodial staff

Senator CAIN. Well, that increased your personnel by going from 44 hours to 40.

Miss HERBERT. Yes. Then if we take over the whole of this building at 499 Pennsylvania Avenue, we are going to need guards and engineers and so forth, so that the increase includes that: and it also includes 30 positions for 6 months' time, to take care of the additional book stock, which we shall have to order and get ready for the new main library when it is opened; that will be temporary serivce.

Senator CAIN. I wonder if you could tell me what the national per capita figure for library budgets happens to be? Is it $1 or $1.25? Miss HERBERT. I can tell you what the standards are of the American Library Association. They set up for limited or minimum service, $1 per capita.

Senator CAIN. You are giving extensive service as opposed to limited service, or that is your desire, anyway?

Miss HERBERT. Yes.

For reasonably good service, $1.50 per capita, and for superior service, $2 per capita.

These were 1943 figures, before the general national increase in salaries, so I would say that the library, to operate properly an edu

cational service, should have not $1.08 at present, but $2 per capita. Senator CAIN. But you would not for any reason want to suggest how we might get you superior dollars to go along with your admittedly superior service. If it were not for these pay bills which inject an insurmountable obstacle from time to time, and various other financial factors, I think we would not have very much trouble.

Miss HERBERT. Well, I recognize that. And I recognize, of course, the difficulty the District is under, but it seems to me that what Senator O'Mahoney was saying a short time ago, is that this is the national capital, and this public library in Washington, although it will not be the largest library, since New York, of course, will be larger, and Chicago, still it will be one of the most significant libraries in the country. It will set the standard for library service for national visitors, and we have a great many national visitors now, such as librarians, superintendents of schools, and municipal management people.

Also, we have a great many foreign visitors, people from the Latin Americas, who are visiting here in connection with library services in their own countries.

I think two things should be borne in mind. One is that the library is not a luxury. It is an absolutely, positively required agency, if we are going to have the kind of community life that we need here.

Senator CAIN. Most of us who listen to you are pretty well convinced of that fact.

Miss HERBERT. I appreciate that you are.

Senator CAIN. The question is one of finances rather than one of need, because finances are things we must somehow find in order to advance your progress.

Miss HERBERT. Yes. That is obvious, but in the national capital, after all, of the largest country in the world, and the least affected by the war, there should be some way by which we could carry out the mandate of Congress in line with the best library practice.

I think perhaps that covers your questions.

The capital outlay total in the 10 years is $1,563,000 and that covers sites, plans, buildings, and the first unit of the new main library. Senator CAIN. Well, Miss Herbert, I am very appreciative of your testimony. You would not expect me to, because I could not tell you what your financing for the future is going to be, but we are going to study those figures of yours as best we can, being realistic about the matter, and with reference to Senator O'Mahoney's proposal formula, if we assume, which we have no particular right to do, that that formula would pass as it is, the dollars coming from that formula would still leave your fine system and that of the other units within your Government, considerably short of their 1948 demands without finding additional tax revenue somewhere.

So, it is merely a difficult problem in dollars and cents.

Miss HEREBRT. Yes. I think we all realize that. We are very happy over your extremely interesting hearings, Senator.

Senator CAIN. We hope that they will be more than interesting. We think they will be productive.

Miss HERBERT. Yes, very valuable.

Senator CAIN. And yet it is still far too early to tell where we are going to produce something from what appears to be almost nothing. Miss HERBERT. I understand that. Shall I leave this document?