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TAX PROPOSALS AFFECTING PRIVATE

PENSION PLANS

HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

NINETY-SECOND CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

ON

TAX PROPOSALS AFFECTING PRIVATE
PENSION PLANS

78-202 O

MAY 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, AND 16, 1972

Part 3 of 3 Parts

(May 15 and 16, 1972)

Printed for the use of the Committee on Ways and Means

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON: 1972

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CONTENTS

Press release dated Thursday, April 13, 1972, announcing public hearings on administration tax proposal affecting private pension plans.... Committee print containing message from the President, letter of transmittal from the Treasury Department, text of the bill, and administration's explanation (H.R. 12272) _ _

Department of the Treasury:

Page

1

3

Government Witnesses

Hon. Edwin S. Cohen, Assistant Secretary for Tax Policy.
Hon. Joel Segall, Deputy Assistant Secretary-

70

70

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Marc M. Twinney, Jr., actuary and pension manager, Ford Motor
Co...

574

Kenneth L. Houck, assistant general counsel, Bethlehem Steel CorpAmerican Association of Retired Persons, and National Retired Teachers Association, Bernard E. Nash, executive director, presented by Cyril F. Brickfield, legislative counsel.

578

326

John M. Cookenbach, president, trust division.

American Bankers Association:

William F. Lackman, chairman, committee on employees trusts.
Robert L. Bevan, assistant Federal legislative counsel.-

American Bar Association:

293

293

293

Mac Asbill, Jr., chairman, section of taxation..

229

Hon. Sheldon S. Cohen, chairman, special committee on retirement benefits...

241

American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial Organizations:
Andrew J. Biemiller, director, department of legislation_.
Bert Seidman, director, department of social security..
Arnold Cantor, economist, research department..

401

401

401

American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, Robert G. Skinner, chairman, division of Federal taxation.

315

American Telephone & Telegraph Co., Stanley L. King, Jr., assistant vice president, human resources_

516

Ammond, Harold J., national director, Political Action Committee for
Engineers and Scientists..-

615

Anderson, Hon. John B., a Representative in Congress from the State of
Illinois

112

Asbill, Mac, chairman, section of taxation, American Bar Association.
Association for Advanced Life Underwriting, Marshall I. Wolper, president_
Augenblick, Robert L., president, Investment Co. Institute__
Bangert & Co., San Francisco, Calif., Louis O. Kelso, legal counsel.
Barberg, W. Warren, chairman, National Association of Life Underwriters.
Baskin, Charles G., secretary-treasurer, Golf Course Superintendents
Association of America___.

229

267

604

647

267

350

Bassett, Preston C., director, vice president, and actuary, Towers, Perrin,
Forster & Crosby...

425

Beidler, Jack, legislative director, United Auto Workers of America.
Bevan, Robert L., assistant Federal legislative counsel, American Bankers
Association..

507

293

(III)

Biemiller, Andrew J., director, Department of Legislation, American
Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial Organizations..
Boynton, Edwin F., member, private pension plans committee, Chamber
of Commerce of the United States__

Brickfield, Cyril F., legislative counsel, American Association of Retired
Persons, and National Retired Teachers Association, presenting state-
ment of Bernard E. Nash, executive director..

Bridges, John F., president, First Investment Annuity Co. of America__
Bureau of Salesmen's National Associations, Marshall J. Mantler, managing
director_

Cantor, Arnold, economist, Research Department, American Federation of
Labor-Congress of Industrial Organizations..

Cardon, John A., Washington, D.C., Ad Hoc Corporate Pension Fund
Committee

Casstevens, Bill, director, United Auto Workers of America, region 2...
Chamber of Commerce of the United States:

E. S. Willis, member, private pension plans committee_-
Edwin F. Boynton, member, private pension plans committee__
Andrew A. Melgard, committee executive, private pension plans
committee__

Cohen, Hon. Sheldon S., chairman, special committee on retirement bene-
fits, American Bar Association_.

Page

401

551

326

493

413

401

569

507

551

551

551

241

College Retirement Equities Fund, and Teachers Insurance & Annuity
Association of America, Dr. William C. Greenough, chairman__
Cookenbach, John M., president, trust division, American Bankers
Association__

522

293

Council on Employee Benefits:

Walter E. Klint, trustee and member, executive committee_.
Thomas H. Paine, legislative committee..

287

287

Curtis, James, Seattle, Wash..

490

Doyle, Robert, legislative counsel, National Society of Professional
Engineers

338

Dreher, William A., president, William A. Dreher & Associates..

454

Edwards, Nelson Jack, vice president, United Auto Workers of America---Erlenborn, Hon. John N., a Representative in Congress from the State of Illinois_

Ferster, Herbert, New York, N. Y.

507

616

498

First Investment Annuity Co. of America, John F. Bridges, president-
Fox, H. Lawrence, counsel, International Brotherhood of Electrical
Workers, Local No. 8..

493

417

Fraser, O'Hear W., Jr., Washington, D.C..

547

Gertner, Marc, counsel, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers,
Local No. 8..

417

Golf Course Superintendents Association of America, Charles G. Baskin, secretary-treasurer_.

350

Greenberg, Bernard, assistant director, insurance, pension, and unemploy-
ment benefits department, United Steelworkers of America__
Greenough, Dr. William C., chairman, Teachers Insurance & Annuity
Association of America, and College Retirement Equities Fund.
Halperin, Prof. Daniel, University of Pennsylvania Law School..
Hartke, Hon. Vance, a U.S. Senator from the State of Indiana__

631

522

306

216

Hillis, Hon. Elwood H., a Representative in Congress from the State of
Indiana__

220

Houck, Kenneth L., assistant general counsel, Bethlehem Steel Corp.,
Ad Hoc Corporate Pension Fund Committee..

578

International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Local No. 8:

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Javits, Hon. Jacob K., a U.S. Senator from the State of New York..
Jemas, Nick, national managing director, Jockeys' Guild, Inc..
Jockeys' Guild, Inc.:

117

352

Nick Jemas, national managing director....

352

Roger D. Smith, counsel..

352

Kelso, Louis O., legal counsel, Bangert & Co., San Francisco, Calif..
Kennedy, Jack E., secretary-treasurer, National Council on Teacher
Retirement__.

647

324

Page

Keogh, Hon. Eugene J., New York, N. Y.

King, Stanley L., Jr., assistant vice president, human resources, American
Telephone & Telegraph Co...

258

516

Klint, Walter E., trustee and member, executive committee, Council on
Employee Benefits...

287

Lackman, William F., chairman, committee on employees trusts, American
Bankers Association...

293

Landry, Jerome, cochairman, legislative committee, National Conference on Public Employee Retirement Systems_

249

Liebenson, Herbert, legislative vice president, National Small Business
Association _ _

610

Lippman, S. G., Washington counsel, Political Action Committee for
Engineers & Scientists..

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Mantler, Marshall J., managing director, Bureau of Salesmen's National

Associations_.

413

Martin, John H., vice president, Litton Industries, Inc.

451

McCormick, Deane E., Jr., tax counsel, Litton Industries, Inc.

451

McKinley, Jack, the Prototype Planner

365

Melgard, Andrew A., committee executive, private pension plans commit-
tee, Chamber of Commerce of the United States..
Miller, Elliot Ira, New York, N. Y..

551

303

Myers, Robert J., Silver Spring, Md.

283

Nash, Bernard E., executive director, American Association of Retired
Persons, and National Retired Teachers Association, presented by
Cyril F. Brickfield, legislative counsel..

326

National Association of Life Underwriters, W. Warren Barberg, chairman_
National Conference on Public Employee Retirement Systems, Jerome
Landry, cochairman, legislative committee_-

267

249

National Council on Teacher Retirement, Jack E. Kennedy, secretarytreasurer..

324

National Education Association, W. Jack Tennant, coordinator, office of teacher retirement..

253

National Retired Teachers Association, and American Association of Retired Persons, Bernard E. Nash, executive director, presented by Cyril F. Brickfield, legislative counsel.

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Nyhart, Eldon H., president, Howard E. Nyhart Co--

299

Paine, Thomas H., legislative committee, Council on Employee Benefits..
Podell, Hon. Bertram L., a Representative in Congress from the State of
New York..........

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Robbins, Paul E., executive director, National Society of Professional
Engineers

338

Seidman, Bert, director, Department of Social Security, American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial Organizations..

401

Sheehan, John J., legislative director, United Steelworkers of America__. Skinner, Robert G., chairman, division of Federal taxation, American Institute of Certified Public Accountants..

631

315

Smith, Quentin I., Jr., president, Towers, Perrin, Forster & Crosby.
Smith, Roger D., counsel, Jockeys' Guild, Inc

425

352

Solenberger, Willard, department of social security, United Auto Workers of America__

507

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