was sorry to say, beginning with the masters, and attributable, perhaps, to long habit, from the existence of previous laws. These laws it was intended now to remove; and he hoped that, on the part of ministers, there would exist a determination to listen as well to the complaints of the men as of the masters, and that they would not hastily come to a conclusion unfavourable to those who had hitherto been oppressed. He had been anxious to protect them as far as lay within his power. He believed that the country at that moment was far from being in the situation repeatedly stated in the House. He had done as much as he could to obtain free labour for the men; and if he had a request to make to them, it would be, that they would avoid every possible interference regarding wages by threats, intimidation, or even molestation. He trusted that all magistrates who were called upon to sit in judgment upon cases arising out of this law, would act fairly and impartially between the accuser and the accused. It was, unquestionably, the interest of the operative classes to submit; and if they did submit and were oppressed, they would be sure to receive the sympathy of the public. Mr. Secretary Peel denied, that there had existed any disposition to bear hard upon that class of persons, which, in point of fact, formed the main strength of the community. They had a right to be protected, and to receive impartial justice. Ministers had never felt the slightest inclination to attend to the interests of the masters, and to neglect those of the workmen. He had never heard in the committee or in the House, expressions regarding the combinations of the operative classes half so strong as some of those used by the hon. member for Aberdeen himself. They did him great credit, though they were not in exact conformity with his subsequent declaration. He alluded to a letter addressed to J. Allen, ship-wright, of Dundee, dated the 26th March, 1825, and signed Joseph Hume, which contained the following sentence:-"I am quite certain, that if the operatives do not act with more temper, moderation, and prudence, than they are now doing, the legislature will be obliged to retrace its steps, and to adopt measures to check unreasonable proceedings and exorbitant demands, too often accompanied with violence." The legislature was not prepared to go so far as the hon. gentleman recommended in his letter: it did not propose to retrace its steps, but to trust to the workmen, in the hope that they would attend to the dictates of justice and their own interest, by abandoning those abominable combinations, which interfered essentially with the freedom and prosperity of trade. Mr. Ellice coincided with the sentiments expressed in the extract from the letter of his hon. friend. If combination attended with violence were continued, the destruction of the manufacturing interest must be the result. Mr. Maxwell said :-In the attempt to compete with foreigners, whose manufactures are not subject to equal taxes, the master is induced to reduce wages for the purpose of preserving his profits. The abundance of labourers enables him to obtain his object, but his success is injurious to the workmen. They combine to prevent such injury, and to make him share the burthen of taxation, by payment of such wages as the taxes render absolutely necessary for the welfare and independence of themselves and families. When food and clothing are protected from the effects of high taxes, justice demands that labour should not be excluded from similar advantages; and combination must therefore be rendered legal, or a minimum of wages established. But capital may leave the country altogether, or cease to be vested in trade; and you must therefore provide such regulations as will prevent the total loss of profit on the one side, as well as the total inadequacy of remuneration on the other. Entire success is probably impossible; but you may effect a happier distribution of the profits of all trades, and preserve the workmen from the consequences of the excessive supply of labour which war, misapplied poor rates, and Irish elective franchise, have given birth to. Your legislation is surrounded with obstacles, and the master and workman, adverse in other things, unite in jealousy of your enactments, violence to masters or fellowworkmen is incompatible with the prosperity of every trade, and prejudicial to the nation. The executive government cannot refrain from arresting a system which invades the first principles of civil society, and degrades the character of the national institutions, with whose fame and preservation it is specially intrusted; and now that the appeal from summary decisions is conceded, the bill we are called upon to render law does not appear to me to impair the rights of either party, or f to be such as to make its support inconsistent with the rights and privileges of the people. It leaves every facility to persuasion, to discussion, and to influence; and when we consider the sacrifice it costs to lose affectionate regards, to become an outcast from the friendly intercourse, the obligations, the good offices and the good will of society, we may, perhaps, conclude we have left every rational and equitable means to the workmen, to secure a fair participation in those profits which are the fruits of labour, skill, and capital. At this moment, under the present law, the weavers in my vicinity are, in part, dependent upon the landed interest, and prove that combination alone cannot secure even employment upon any terms; and this fact should satisfy those who object to this bill in the impression of its unfavourable spirit to the workman. I cannot conclude these observations without imploring this House to take into its most serious consideration the depressed state of the labourers of this empire, whether in agricultural Sussex, or in manufacturing Renfrewshire, and the criminal offences which are commensurate with it. The capital of the wealthy, their money, and the capital of the poor, their labour, are alike unprofitable, at a time when the world is employing, in the arts of peace, in the pursuits of comfort, and in the enjoyments of civilization, those resources recently wasted away in oppressive wars. Such an anomaly, when the right hon. Secretary for Foreign Affairs has opened the new world to our industry, and replaced us at the head of the nations of the old world, proclaims a defective financial system, which denies us the warmth which should accompany the splendor of our elevation and ascend had set forth an unsubstantial demand of 2,000,000l., and they had, moreover, claimed the value of all the towns and palaces which had been captured by the British forces, and which had afterwards been given up to the native princes. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was glad to hear the expressions of the petitioners. Never were men so severely treated as the trustees had been. They knew well what obloquy would attend the discharge of a duty so difficult. They were aware, that the most extravagant expectations were entertained, by both officers and men, as to the amount of the booty. Any other men would have shrunk from such a responsibility. The duke of Wellington had been advised to have nothing to do with it; but with a magnanimity not surprising in him, he considered that no man in the service could be better acquainted with the whole of the circumstances of the capture, than himself. From first to last, since he had taken the subject into his hands, he had been met by nothing but reproaches and calumnies, the most unfounded and undeserved. Dr. Lushington persisted in the assertion, that the behaviour of the duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot, as trustees of that booty, had been most unprecedented. The expectations of all the claimants could not have been so extravagant as had been represented. Many of those expectations had been founded upon sound principles. The claimants had a right to have their claims investigated fairly and openly, and not to be settled behind their backs, as the trustees had attempted. Amongst the claimants were to be found the commander-in-chief and his staff; and these persons, surely, could not be supposed to have acted irregularly in setting forth their claims. Every thing desired might have been easily obtained, if the trustees had condescended to hold communication with the agent or solicitor of the army. Sir H. Hardinge complained of the mis-statements and calumnies of an anonymous pamphlet published against the duke of Wellington. The fact was, that until 1823 the trustees had nothing to say to the distribution of the prize-money. Since then, sir T. Hislop had been required to give in a list of the claimants, which was not delivered till the 5th of June. So far the fault of the delay was attributable to sir T. Hislop. The fact was, that both the duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot had laboured indefatigably in the business on behalf of the army. He was sorry he was not in the House on a previous evening, when a learned civilian had said, that a certain written answer given by the duke of Wellington was impudent and insolent in the highest degree. To be sure it was easy for gentlemen in their places to give utterance to expressions with respect to others who were too elevated to notice them, which they would not venture to use to the members of that House. He did not wish to curtail the liberty of speech, but it was difficult for any friend of that noble person to listen to such language, without retorting his own words upon the member who ventured to use it. He denied on the part of Mr. Arbuthnot, that there ever was a design of appointing his son, who was a minor, in his place. The statement was false and calumnious. Mr. Arbuthnot's youngest son was 25 years of age. He had taken the opinion of the law-officers upon the right of appointing his son an agent, and he was informed that there would be nothing illegal in it. Such a system of clamour and calumny excited against men engaged in a business so arduous was highly to be deprecated. The soldiers had been taught to expect most unaccountable heaps of wealth. They actually looked to be paid, as it appeared by the abominable pamphlet, for the public buildings and palaces of Deccan. As well might the Waterloo army expect to be paid for the Tuilleries. Mr. Hume said, that the conduct of the duke and his colleague had been most extraordinary; for they had expressed to the solicitor of the claimants their determination to receive all the information which he might think proper to give, but to afford him no information whatever upon any point. He denied that the petitioners had advanced claim to the amount of 2,000,000l. The petitioners stated the sum at only 700,000l. Great and very culpable delay had existed somewhere, and if that delay were not attributable to the trustees, let them clear themselves, and fix the blame where it ought to lie, by affording the information required at their hands. Sir H. Hardinge said, that the duke of Wellington never had refused information. On the contrary, he had informed sir T. Hislop that the papers were at his service to inspect them at the office; but he would not let them be shown to attorneys and solicitors. Mr. Spring Rice said, that the words attributed to the learned member, had never been used by him. It was, therefore, to be regretted that his gallant friend had not ascertained this fact, before he had entered upon the subject. Sir H. Hardinge said, that the words had been printed in the newspapers, and as the learned member had not denied them, and had not found fault with the reporter, he was responsible for them. The Speaker said, it was most disorderly for any member to refer to what had been uttered in a previous debate; but it was still more out of order to derive that information from a source, the existence of which was itself a breach of the privileges of the House. Mr. Brougham said, he could not but condemn the conduct of any member who, from what he had seen in a newspaper, came down to that House and gave vent to his feelings, before he had asked his opponent whether he had really made use of the words attributed to him. He must tell the gallant gentleman, that neither the high station of the duke of Wellington, nor the interest the country held in him, could ever deter either himself or his friends from expressing their opinions frankly upon his public conduct. The duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot were public men, clothed with a public trust, and there was public money concerned in that trust; and as honest stewards to the public, he and every one in that House was bound to scrutinize the duke's conduct. He had been consulted professionally by the attorneys appointed by those who were interested in the booty. Mr. Arbuthnot's son might be of age now; but was he not a minor at the time of the appointment before alluded to? ["No, no."] Be that fact as it might, he had given his opinion to the claimants that the appointment of young Arbuthnot to be the agent would have been illegal, and that by the provisions of the Prize Act, a penalty of 500l. would have been incurred by every single transaction of his in that appointment. And then, what followed? The gentlemen opposite talked of attack. There was an attack, indeed, made upon the legal advisers of sir T. Hislop an attack which was so utterly gross that it could only be extenuated by the profound ignorance of the law evinced by the trustees. They offered to show made use of by his gallant friend. That gallant officer had certainly, with great warmth, repelled a charge which he con friend of his who was absent; but he would ask, whether such warmth was not frequently manifested in the course of discussions in that House. His gallant friend had no previous intimation that such a petition was to be presented, and therefore he was free from the suspicion of having premeditated any improper language. With respect to the noble duke, and the right hon. gentleman, whose conduct was found fault with, so far from being blamed, their exertions were entitled to the highest praise. If there were any two individuals upon whose integrity and straitforwardness he was most peculiarly inclined to rely, the duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot were the men. They had gratuitously undertaken a most complicated and laborious task, and it was but a poor return for their services, thus to turn round and accuse them of delay. sir T. Hislop, and colonel Wood, the documents, on condition that they did not show them to any lawyer. And the ground of this prohibition was still more offensive-ceived to have been made against a noble "because there was too great a disposition in certain quarters to entertain law proceedings." Now, the love of lawyers for litigation was a vulgar, gross, and every-day charge. It was as old as the hills. It was, however, utterly groundless. Four out of every five opinions given by lawyers were against the case submitted to them. He himself frequently told clients that though in principle they might have a very good case, they had not one which would repay the expense and trouble of a suit. But, now who were these lawyers did the House suppose? He admitted, that for himself and his learned friend near him (Dr. Lushington), nothing could be said: they were lawyers without redemption. But Dr. Jenner was joined with them in their opinion—a man as little of a whig as any gentleman opposite-a very worthy lawyer, with an excellent tory spirit. Next was Mr. W. Adams, a king's counsel-a man of no Mr. Secretary Canning said, he had been violent politics, scarcely of any politics at endeavouring to recollect the precise words all, and a friend to the duke of Welling- used by the learned member. He thought ton. Then who else was there? Oh! the epithet "insolent," or the substantive what if a judge was among them? What" insolence," had been made use of by if lord Wellington, as a cabinet minister, him, not, however, as applied to indivihad since joined in recommending this dual character, or meant privately, but person to the Crown as a fit associate directed against a letter in which the words among the twelve judges of the land."the said W. Harrison," instead of "the Mr. Gaselee had joined them in their opinion. Then there was Mr. William Harrison, the known familiar of the Treasury-who, "most unkindest act of all" turned upon them. Really people who talked of unjustifiable attacks and so forth, ought to remember the old adage of the danger of persons who live in certain houses, throwing stones. For this very nobleman, who seemed to be so very touchy by representation, and who had been so touchily defended by the gallant officer, did not scruple to make this unjustifiable attack upon the respectable lawyers whom he had named. He would only add, that he had heard this pamphlet called a libel. If it was a libel, the courts of law were open to the parties; and this course of proceeding, he begged to say, would be much better and more decent than talking in big words there. Mr. Secretary Peel could not help expressing his surprise at the course which this conversation had taken. For himself, he had heard no offensive expression said Mr. W. Harrison," had been used. In explanation of which mistake it was enough to say, that the word "Mr." was inserted in the original manuscript, but by accident omitted in the copy. And while he agreed that it was no part of the duty of a member to stand up and deny a charge made upon such loose authority, he hoped the learned gentleman would not feel the same objection to stating whether he (Mr. C.) was right in his impression of what had been said on the occasion alluded to. Dr. Lushington said, that after the appeal which had been made to him by the right hon. Secretary, he felt justified in stating, that which he would have never uttered,-which he would sooner have parted with life than have spoken a word upon, in answer to what he conceived a most wanton and unfounded attack upon him. The hon. member for Durham had commented on his conduct, being at the time cognizant of the error into which he had been led, as he held in his hand the letter which would have explained that error, and yet had he come down to the House to reprobate that conduct, though in possession of the document which would have explained the greater part of it. Had he not risen to utter one syllable in answer to the charge so made against him, he would have shown that he wanted the feelings of a man; and would have, in that House, become unworthy of a seat. He conceived he had done no more than his duty in the course he had taken on the occasion alluded to, and should a similar occasion present itself, no human power should prevent him from acting in a similar manner, even though the person to be spoken of were the highest subject in the country. He now came to answer the right hon. gentleman, and he assured him that, to the best of his knowledge, he (Mr. C.) had stated with great accuracy the words which he (Dr. L.) had used, and also the meaning with which he had used them. He was quite sure the word impudent or insolent could not, with a shadow of propriety, be applied to Mr. Harrison, who was the law adviser of the Treasury, and whose brother was a secretary to the same department. He had designated the letter as being insolent, or insulting, and he was perfectly correct so far as it appeared in print. He hoped the House would not call upon him to say more than that he had been misled, and had used strong expressions under a mistake. Sir H. Hardinge said, that if any expression used by him was offensive or unparliamentary, he was ready to explain in the fullest manner. He admitted that his manner was vehement; but he declared that he was not conscious of having used, or intended, any expression offensive to the learned gentleman. The Speaker said, he was anxious to bear testimony to the fact, that no offensive language had been used. Had any thing been said which called for his interference, it would have been unpardonable in him to have remained silent. A mistake had certainly taken place, and the learned member had done honour to himself, and justice to him (the Speaker), in giving the explanation which the House had just heard. Dr. Lushington said, he certainly had been pained at having insolence imputed to him; but as the gallant officer had declared that he was unconscious of having used or intended any thing offensive, he was satisfied. The petition was ordered to be printed. MILITARY OCCUPATION OF SPAIN.] Mr. Brougham said, he rose for the pur pose of proposing a question to the right hon. Secretary upon a subject of the most serious nature-he meant the military occupation of Spain, by France. He had hitherto abstained from asking a single question, fearful that discussion would be productive of mischief, and of making worse the situations of those gallant characters who were now imprisoned martyrs in the cause of liberty, and who had lost in that glorious cause all but their honour. But now, at the close of the session, he thought he might venture to propose one question. It had been long since stated, that when Ferdinand was fully restored to power, the French troops were to be withdrawn from Spain. That time had arrived, and still the French troops remained; nay more, they had fortified Cadiz ; in addition to which, they held St. Sebastian and several other places. He underderstood that thirty or forty thousand French troops still remained in Spain. Were they to remain in Spain as long as the king of France, or as Ferdinand himself wished for their presence? If such was the case, then it became the duty of England to interfere. In a short time Ferdinand might say that the French troops should remain in his territories, so long as Spain was at war with her South American colonies. The policy at present pursued by France had a tendency to destroy the balance of power in Europe. He would ask, what would be our situation, in the event of another war with Ireland, exposed to the iron coast of Spain, guarded, not by Spaniards, but by Frenchmen, continued in that country under various pretexts? He would, therefore, ask the right hon. Secretary, whether there was any reason to hope that the French troops would shortly evacuate the Spanish territory? Mr. Secretary Canning said, that the point to which the learned member had alluded, had long occupied the attention of the government, and was still pressing upon that attention. He was prepared to say, that ministers had received from the French government, from time to time, such assurances as satisfied his mind that there did not exist the slightest shadow of an intention to occupy the fortresses of Spain, after the French army should have been withdrawn. He was able to |